"toto" <scarecrow@wicked.witch> wrote in message
news:03khgv0ub20evolfc80sbdqfgc3d0jjcn1@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:47:27 GMT, "Stan de SD"
> <standesd@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Sorry, but the Enron pressuring in India started in the early 1990's,
during
> >Clinton's FIRST term - ROTFLMAO!!!
>
> So what?. Bush continued the bailouts of Enron.

What bailouts? Have any dollar amounts, or cites? Or is this another
toto-ism?

"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0I3Oa.1023$hW4.80431308@newssvr21.news.prodig y.com...
> "Stan de SD" <standesd@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:hRZNa.84077$Io.7557034@newsread2.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
> >
> > "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:N4zNa.246$tr1.28711127@newssvr14.news.prodigy .com...
> > > Was Enron one of your "highly successful operations that cater to the
> > TASTES
> > > and PREFERENCES of working-class America"?
> >
> > No. First of all, it wasn't successful, and secondly, it was an example
of
> > the negligence of the SEC under Clinton's watch.
>
> They were fantastically successfull. They made tons and tons of money
until
> they got caught.

Enron's bankrupt - hardly a sign of being fantastically successful.

> Are you saying that corporations are not responsible for their own
actions?

No. How do you come to that conclusion?

"hc23hc" <hc23hc@art.line> wrote in message
news:3F094A2A.649C4DF6@art.line...
> Roger wrote:
> >
> > "Stan de SD" <standesd@earthlink.net> wrote
> > >
> > > No. First of all, it wasn't successful, and secondly, it was an
example of
> > > the negligence of the SEC under Clinton's watch.
> >
> > Are you saying that corporations are not responsible for their own
actions?
> > That they are only responsible if aggressively monitored by the
government?
> > That if the government doesn't watch every move they make, they turn
corupt
> > and steal money from their shareholders and "customers?" Sounds like you
> > agree with me.
>
>
> It's exactly what Stain was saying, but almost certainly not
> what he thought he was saying. Unless maybe, after a marathon
> weekend of lurid, disoriented trolling of usenet (hopped up on
> copious quantities of formaldehyde-spiked canned beer he found
> on sale at a nearby K-Mart) Stain was suddenly struck by the
> mother of all epiphanies... along lines similar to these :

Notice how hc won't jump in until the other idiots show (Roger, toto) show
up, since she's only comfortable discussing issues among her peers...

Stain de STD wrote:
>
> "hc23hc" <hc23hc@art.line> wrote
> > It's exactly what Stain was saying, but almost certainly not
> > what he thought he was saying. Unless maybe, after a marathon
> > weekend of lurid, disoriented trolling of usenet (hopped up on
> > copious quantities of formaldehyde-spiked canned beer he found
> > on sale at a nearby K-Mart) Stain was suddenly struck by the
> > mother of all epiphanies... along lines similar to these :
>
> since she's only comfortable discussing issues among her peers...

You forgot something, Stain -

.............................................after a marathon
weekend of lurid, disoriented trolling of usenet (hopped up on
copious quantities of formaldehyde-spiked canned beer he found
on sale at a nearby K-Mart) Stain was suddenly struck by the
mother of all epiphanies... along lines similar to these :


"Stain, this is your Conscience ! Stain ! Wake up !"

"unhhnnh ... wha- ?"

"Stain, I know you can hear me ..."

"Say again ?"

"OK, I'm sorry, this is as loud as I can speak but
if you'd just turn down the fucking talk radio or
whatever that racket is ..."

"VCR... lemme find the remote, must've dozed off"

"Hey Stain, your pants are undone ..."

"Mmyeah, sorry. It's not what you think !"

"What the hell are you watching ? Sounds like-"

"Foreign film, ahem, not one you'd uh recognize ..."

"The cops look like NYPD, those that aren't naked
All happy and showing each other their guns and-
Holy sh.... TWO fists ? Stain, did you see that ?
The black kid screaming, scary. So realistic."

"It's ...REsearch. DON'T look, OK ? I'll get the reMOTE"

"Stain, don't shit me. I may be only a little guy but
I'm your fucking Conscience for cryin' out so don't try
denying it, that's gay leather porn you've been whacking
off to - "

"Mmmremsearch...mm... Okay, look, you might as well know
the wHOLE story, uh, the CaNADians, right, have LEgalized
like, HOMOSEXUAL marriage and HARDly a week later the law
in TEXas against SODOMY is struck down by the SuPREMEs-"

"They gave Diana Ross back her license ?"

"This is NOT a LAUGHING matter, it could mean the end of
the American Family as an INSTITUTION. I have to BONE
UP on this ... FILTH, so I can formulate my response to
the swing voters of the usenet community in which I play
a MOST influential role, I'll have you KNOW..."

"Sorry, Stain. Maybe I was a bit out of line there, I've
been working two jobs for ages, mine plus moonlighting for
your ailing Sense of Humor. Going on six years now ..."

"What's with my sense of HOMO- er, humor anyway ? Got
homeless BUM syndrome, eh ? You tell that lazy bastard
to get off his ASS and earn his keep or I'll, nnggghgh,
fucking FIRE him and stick a TOILET plunger in his ah,
um sorry. You were saying ? What has happened to my -"

"Your Sense of Humor, Stain... ? Dead. I'm sorry.
He wasn't all that healthy to begin with and then he
had a heart attack right around the time you started
making jokes how Amadou Diallo deserved to be killed,
and that sort of stuff. Your sense of humor slipped
into a coma and never regained consciousness. We all
tried helping with CPR, Heimlich, electroshock, the
whole enchilada, but the internal bleeding was just too
much. He died young, of a broken heart."

"Probably a BLEEDING HEART Liberal, heheh. Geddit ?"

"Uh, yeah, Stain, goddit. Anyway, that's sort of what
I came to talk with you about. I feel it's my fault
for not keeping in touch more regularly but as I said
I had so much work. I'd never been particularly strong
even when you were a kid. All us Senses of yours seemed
to get sick at once after you reported your own parents
to the FBI"

"My ADOPTIVE parents... for them I was NOTHING but an
experiment in social engineering, cunningly disguised
as LOVE. But I saw through THEM before they were able
to inoculate me with their subversive altruism. The
FBI was my ONLY hope of gaining freedom from people so
deluded, they almost brainwashed me into believing in
the existence of things in life even more, uh important
than MONEY. Not just ONE thing, thingS plural ! Me,
a kid, being SPOONfed this... this, LIBERALISM. I'm
glad they were taken AWAY. What kind of handicapped
person might I have become if LEFT uh exposed to THEIR
lefty goo-goo hedonist artsy-fartsy touchy-feely LOVE
agenda ? I even SAW one of them completely NUDE once,
when I was just 4 years old. It was so depraved, it's
taken the rest of my LIFE so far to recover from the
SHOCK ---"

"Stain..."

"I have DEDicated myself to overCOMING decadence and
hedonism wherEVER it REARs its ugly HEAD, I -"

"Stain - get real, willya ? I'm your goddam Conscience,
what's lefta me after years of bipolar destruction and
neglect you've done to us both. Just... stop. Stop
kidding yourself or me about these wads of used Kleenex
and splotches on the sofa you've been lying on watching
that gay porno video for hours and hours ... let's just
get this out in the open once and for all, Stain. You
spend all these hours on the internet trolling for guys
who are gay for a reason. You know what that reason is"

"No I-"

"No point lying to me, Stain. I'm your Conscience and
I know the score about you in more ways than you've ever
thought possible. Number one: you're gay. Number two:
you're a shitty, fucked up fascist scumbag for a reason."

"I, uh -"

"Which is two reasons actually, that you are very lonely
and emotionally fragile since early adolescence when the
weird-looking scoutmaster with the yellow teeth and the
smell of bowel incontinence clinging to him like glue -
what was his name, "Jafo" ? Yeah, that guy. After he
took you hiking in the woods and you both got lost that
day for a couple of hours... you came back changed. And
we both know why, Stain, don't we ? You got raped by a
Log-Cabin Republican chickenhawk creep is reason number
one. Secondly, because you blame *yourself* instead of
him, the guilty party. Just like millions of Americans"

"Who STAND FIRM bEhiND THEir COMManderInchiEf - BUSH RULEs"

"well the stupider ones, anyway. Who blame themselves for
tons of things gone wrong in this country, when the blame
should go to the guilty party in charge and his squad of
deputies. It makes people more lonely - just like you're
lonely, Stain - because it's a lot of blame to carry for
an overweight, undereducated slug like you. It makes you
angry too, 'cause you realize you can't and shouldn't have
to handle all that blame. Plus you're subconsciously aware
that something is not right about you making any excuses
for the ungrateful guilty parties of Corporate America"

"Jafo said subMISSION in the END would make me FREE..."

"Literally, Stain. That Republican bastard's lubricious
platitude equates his freedom to penetrate you 'in the
end' with your craven submission to Enron, Wal-Mart and
coterie of fascists by whom you so desperately wish to
be liked, or at least to be found useful and compliant"

"That's a bit HARSH, I th--"

"Like so many lonely neurotics isolated from one another,
you're too afraid of being found *wrong* about anything.
That's why you assimilate the agenda of your oppressors"

"I don't expect them to oppress ME ..."

"while venomously attacking the nation's poor and homeless.
But it's clear that the US ruling class shares (if almost
nothing else) with the general public their opinion of you
Stain, as a bloated, servile, uncultured fatboy **** with
homosexual tendencies but absolutely no polite upbringing"

"Are you DONE ?"

"No, Stain. Here's the bottom line. If you don't stop
sucking up to the fascist criminal elite at once, your
remaining senses are going to take leave of you. That's
not an idle threat. We are normal well-adjusted Senses
but you've made it impossible for us to operate properly
in your shapeless body. So, one more suck-up to Enron
and we're gone, leaving you here for all to ridicule as
a numb slack-jawed brainless fat nincompoop. I promise"

"I, uh hmm... supPOSE..."

"Plus, one other thing -"

"No, NOT admitting I'm gay. No. No WAY. That HAS to
be kept SECRET between us until I'm GOOD and ready"

"Stain, everybody knows. What the ****, OK, never mind
publicly admitting you're gay. It would be redundant
anyway. Just fucking stop making excuses for Enron."

"Done. Wanna watch some more video ?"


And so it goes. Yes, it's official. Stain's a changed
man, one who shall no longer orally suck the scurvy lint
off of Enron's testicles. His Conscience has decided.

..
..
..

"hc23hc" <hc23hc@art.line> wrote in message
news:3F09B7DD.5E4785B0@art.line...
> Stain de STD wrote:
> >
> > "hc23hc" <hc23hc@art.line> wrote
> > > It's exactly what Stain was saying, but almost certainly not
> > > what he thought he was saying. Unless maybe, after a marathon
> > > weekend of lurid, disoriented trolling of usenet (hopped up on
> > > copious quantities of formaldehyde-spiked canned beer he found
> > > on sale at a nearby K-Mart) Stain was suddenly struck by the
> > > mother of all epiphanies... along lines similar to these :
> >
> > since she's only comfortable discussing issues among her peers...
>
> You forgot something, Stain -
>
> (hc's excerpt from her latest work "The Shopping Cart Monologues" snipped
for brevity...)

We already know you're a frothing old nutbag... regurgitating your writings
tells us nothing new.

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:44:28 GMT, "Stan de SD"
<standesd@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>"toto" <scarecrow@wicked.witch> wrote in message
>news:03khgv0ub20evolfc80sbdqfgc3d0jjcn1@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:47:27 GMT, "Stan de SD"
>> <standesd@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Sorry, but the Enron pressuring in India started in the early 1990's,
>during
>> >Clinton's FIRST term - ROTFLMAO!!!
>>
>> So what?. Bush continued the bailouts of Enron.
>
>What bailouts? Have any dollar amounts, or cites? Or is this another
>toto-ism?
>
>
Bailouts may be the wrong term. It's the fact that he is helping
to keep the crooks out of jail that disturbs me.

Begin restore (note - I took out the x-no-archive so you can't
complain that it isn't on google)

These facts elude your attention, Stan?
Did you delete them because you cannot read and answer them?

During the 2000 presidential campaign, the Center for Public Integrity
named Enron as the single largest patron of Bush’s entire political
career.

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Zoellick and White House economist
Lawrence Lindsey were paid Enron advisers before Bush appointed them
to his administration. Bush tapped Enron lobbyist and former Montana
Governor Marc Racicot to head the national Republican Party in late
2000.

Bush named Ken Lay to his Energy Department transition team and
resisted calls for price controls when Enron and other power companies
were accused of price gouging to exploit the West Coast power crisis.

As Enron’s crisis worsened through the first nine months of the Bush
presidency, Ken Lay got Bush’s help in three principal ways:

--Bush personally joined the fight against imposing caps on the
soaring price of electricity in California at a time when Enron was
artificially driving up the price of electricity by manipulating
supply. Bush’s rear-guard action against price caps bought Enron and
other energy traders extra time to gouge hundreds of millions of
dollars from California’s consumers.

--Bush granted Lay broad influence over the administration’s energy
policies, including the choice of key regulators to oversee Enron’s
businesses. The chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
was suddenly replaced in 2001 after he began to delve into Enron’s
complex derivative-financing schemes.

--Bush had his National Security Council staff organize an
administration-wide campaign to pressure the Indian government to
accommodate Enron, which wanted to sell its generating plant in
Dabhol, India, for $2.3 billion. Bush administration pressure on India
over the Dabhol plant continued even after Sept. 11, when India’s
support was needed for the war on terrorism. The administration’s
threats against India on Enron’s behalf didn’t stop until Nov. 8.
>>
>> During the late 1990s and early 2000s, Enron was a trading powerhouse.
>> The firm, which had started as a US natural gas pipeline company,
>> started trading energies, then launched into new markets, including
>> metals, paper, water, weather and bandwidth. For a time, it seamed
>> that everything Enron touched turned to gold. The firm attracted some
>> of the best talent, first from the energy industry, and then from Wall
>> Street. In 2001, the Enron empire collapsed. The firm's bankruptcy was
>> the largest in US history, surpassed seven months later by WorldCom's
>> bankruptcy.
>>
end restore

Bush's relationship with Enron goes bact to the mid-1980s, btw.

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgame...l?bid=3&pid=21

Did George W. Bush once have a financial relationship with Enron? In
1986, according to a publicly available record, the two drilled for
oil together--at a time when Bush was a not-too-successful oil man in
Texas and his oil venture was in dire need of help. Bush's business
association with Enron, it seems, has not previously been reported.

In 1986, Spectrum 7, a privately owned oil company chaired by Bush
faced serious trouble. Two years earlier, Bush had merged his failing
Bush Exploration Company (previously known as Arbusto--the Spanish
word for shrub) with the profitable Spectrum 7, and he was named chief
executive and director of the company. Bush was paid $75,000 a year
and handed 1.1 million shares, according to "First Son," Bill
Minutaglio's biography of Bush. Under this deal, Bush ended up owning
about 15 percent of Spectrum 7. By the end of 1985, Spectrum's
fortunes had reversed. With oil prices falling, the company was losing
money and on the verge of collapse. To save the firm, Bush began
negotiations to sell Spectrum 7 to Harken Energy, a large Dallas-based
energy firm owned mostly by billionaire George Soros, Saudi
businessman Abdullah Taha Baksh and the Harvard Management
Corporation.

The deal took months to work out. In September of 1986, Spectrum 7 and
Harken announced they had reached an agreement. Spectrum 7
shareholders, under the plan, would receive Harken stock. Bush
publicly said that Spectrum 7 would continue to operate in Midland,
Texas, as a wholly-owned subsidiary of Harken and that he would become
an active member of Harken's board of directors. As Minutaglio noted,
the deal would give Bush about $600,000 in Harken shares and $50,000
to $120,000 a year in consultant's fees. It also would provide $2.25
million in Harken stock for a company with a net value close to $1.8
million.

As the details of the Spectrum-Harken acquisition--which Bush badly
needed--were being finalized, Enron Oil and Gas Company, a subsidiary
of Enron Corporation, announced on October 16, 1986, that it had
completed a well producing both oil and natural gas in Martin County,
Texas. An Enron Oil and Gas press release reported the well was
producing 24,000 cubic feet of natural gas and 411 barrels of oil per
day in the Belspec Fusselman Field, 15 miles northeast of Midland.
Enron held 52 percent interest in the well. According to the company's
announcement, 10 percent belonged to Spectrum 7. At that point,
Spectrum 7 was still Bush's company. Harken's completion of the
Spectrum 7 acquisition was announced in early November.

To spell it out: George W. Bush and Enron Oil and Gas were in business
together in 1986--when Ken Lay was head of Enron. (Lay was named Enron
chairman in February of that year.) How did this deal come about? Was
this the only project in which Bush and Enron were partners? A call
placed to the White House produced no response. Karen Denne, an Enron
spokeswoman, says "I can't tell you anything about" that project,
explaining Enron "sold all its domestic exploration and production
assets about two years ago to EOG Reources" and probably did not
retain records regarding that well. As for the possibility Spectrum 7
invested in other Enron ventures, she notes, "You're referencing
something that happened in 1986. I can check, but we're pretty
short-staffed now." Elizabeth Ivers, a spokeswoman for EOG Resources
(formerly Enron Oil and Gas), says, "If we did have any records on
that well, it would be nothing that we would share with the public. We
do not disclose the details or specifics of who we have well interests
with."

After the Enron affair began generating front-page headlines, Bush
attempted to distance himself from Enron and Lay. In early January,
the President claimed he and Lay had not always been close pals. "He
was a supporter of [Texas Governor] Ann Richards in my run [against
her] in 1994," Bush asserted, noting he did not get "to know Ken" and
work with him until after he won that election. But campaign records
show Lay donated three times as much money to Bush in that race as he
did to Richards. Moreover, contacts between Lay and the Bush family
pre-dated that campaign. In 1992, Lay chaired the host committee for
the 1992 Republican convention in Houston, where Bush's father won his
second presidential nomination. And Lay was a sleepover guest at the
White House of President George H.W. Bush.

The Enron-George W. Bush connection goes back further than the
President has suggested. But does that mean the relationship between
the younger Bush and Lay stretches to the mid-1980s? The deal could
have happened without contact between Lay and Bush. But most company
heads would be interested to know that the son of the sitting
vice-president had invested in one of their enterprises. If Lay had
been aware of the partnership, that would not prove the two were pals
or that Bush and Spectrum 7 had received undue consideration from
Enron. But given Enron's penchant to use political ties to win and
protect business opportunities, it is tough not to wonder if this
Bush-Enron venture involved special arrangements. This is certainly
one more Enron partnership that deserves scrutiny--especially since
George W. Bush has yet to acknowledge it. The Spectrum-Enron deal is
either an odd historical coincidence or an indication there's more to
learn about the Bush-Enron association.

NOW FOR AN UPDATE ON THE BUSH-ENRON OIL DEAL:

On March 6, two days after this story was first posted, "The New York
Times" ran on the front page of its business section a story
headlined, "Bush Joined Unit of Enron In '86 Venture To Seek Oil." The
article, written by Jim Yardley, essentially reported the facts noted
above. Halfway into the piece, it noted, "A columnist in The Nation,
the liberal political journal,...wrote about the deal this week in its
online edition."

While the Bush White House did not respond to a request from "The
Nation" for information, White House spokesman Dan Bartlett told the
"Times" the President "has no recollection of this specific deal."
Bartlett maintained that in 1986 Spectrum 7 was involved in more than
175 wells. Ted Collins Jr., who was president of Enron Oil and Gas at
the time, told the newspaper that Bush did not have "a special
relationship" with the company. Collins also asserted that Lay back
then "wouldn't have known who Spectrum 7 was and that George W. Bush
had anything to do with a company called Spectrum 7."

Since the story was originally posted, I have found records suggesting
that Bush's Spectrum 7 had a second partnership with Enron. In May of
1985, a subsidiary of InterNorth, an Omaha-based energy company,
announced the completion of a well in Martin County, Texas. According
to "PR Newswire," the company said that Spectrum 7 owned an 18.75
percent interest in the well. (The rest was held by the InterNorth
subsidiary.) The well, like the one mentioned above, was located at
the Belspec Fusselman Field. That same month, InterNorth merged with
Houston Natural Gas (HNG)--which gave birth to Enron. HNG/InterNorth
changed its name to Enron in 1986, and the InterNorth subsidiary that
had invested in the well with Spectrum 7 became part of Enron Oil and
Gas. If Spectrum 7 and Enron Oil and Gas had retained their interests
in the well, that would mean that Bush's oil company was in
partnership with Enron before the deal reported above. Since Bush,
according to his spokesperson, does not have a memory for such details
and EOG Resources says it will not release any information about wells
it has owned, it will be tough to confirm that the InterNorth-Spectrum
7 venture became an Enron-Spectrum 7 enterprise.

On another, more important, Enron-Bush point: Way back in 1994, I
reported that Rodolfo Terragno, a former Argentine cabinet minister,
had claimed that when he headed the Public Works and Services
Department in 1988, George W. Bush, whom Terragno did not know, called
him and pressured Terragno to award a pipeline contract worth hundreds
of millions of dollars to Enron. (See
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020204&s=corn.) Terragno, who
said he resisted this and subsequent importuning, could not provide
proof that the call had occurred. (How can you prove you were phoned
by the son of the Vice-President?) Bush's aides denied Terragno's
account. But it's worth taking a second look at those denials.

At the time I was pursuing the Terragno story, Bush was running for
Texas governor, and I asked the campaign whether Bush had spoken to
Terragno about the pipeline project and whether he had any business
relationship with Enron. Bush aide Karen Hughes faxed me a terse
statement: "The answer to your questions are no and none. Your
questions are apparently addressed to the wrong person." An Enron
spokesperson said, "Enron has not had any business dealings with
George W. Bush, and we don't have any knowledge that he was involved
in a pipeline project in Argentina."

The recent news about the 1986 Enron-Bush venture in the Belspec
Fusselman Field undermines (to be polite about it) those 1994
statements from Bush and Enron denying any business relationship
between the scion and the company. The existence of this oil
partnership in 1986 (or one in 1985) has no bearing on the veracity of
Terragno's tale. But it shows the credibility of the Bush gang and
that of Enron deserve questioning when either one is talking about the
other.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:45:41 GMT, "Stan de SD"
<standesd@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Enron's bankrupt - hardly a sign of being fantastically successful.

That does not preclude the successes they did have and would
have continued to have had they not been caught at their game.
And in fact had they not decided to cheat, they *might* easily have
still been successful in their original mission.

During the late 1990s and early 2000s, Enron was a trading powerhouse.
The firm, which had started as a US natural gas pipeline company,
started trading energies, then launched into new markets, including
metals, paper, water, weather and bandwidth. For a time, it seamed
that everything Enron touched turned to gold. The firm attracted some
of the best talent, first from the energy industry, and then from Wall
Street. In 2001, the Enron empire collapsed. The firm's bankruptcy was
the largest in US history, surpassed seven months later by WorldCom's
bankruptcy.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

"Stan de SD" <standesd@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9liOa.87556$Io.7655066@newsread2.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
>
> "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0I3Oa.1023$hW4.80431308@newssvr21.news.prodig y.com...
> > "Stan de SD" <standesd@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:hRZNa.84077$Io.7557034@newsread2.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
> > >
> > > "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:N4zNa.246$tr1.28711127@newssvr14.news.prodigy .com...
> > > > Was Enron one of your "highly successful operations that cater to
the
> > > TASTES
> > > > and PREFERENCES of working-class America"?
> > >
> > > No. First of all, it wasn't successful, and secondly, it was an
example
> of
> > > the negligence of the SEC under Clinton's watch.
> >
> > They were fantastically successfull. They made tons and tons of money
> until
> > they got caught.
>
> Enron's bankrupt - hardly a sign of being fantastically successful.

"They were" means that they "were" in the past, not the present. They "were"
fantastically successfull until their sham "was" discovered.

>
> > Are you saying that corporations are not responsible for their own
> actions?
>
> No. How do you come to that conclusion?

You said that Enron was "an example of the negligence of the SEC under
Clinton's watch." That leads me to believe that you think it was the SEC
that was responsible for what Enron did, not Enron.