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[1] Posted by Donald L Ferrt 06-22-2003, 11:16 AM |
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http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=co&u=www.denverpost.com
fred brown What can we learn from our ignorance? By Fred Brown If more than a third of Americans believes weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq, what does that tell us? That more than a third of the public is totally out of touch? That 34 percent of the people don't believe news reports? That roughly one in three people want to give the answers they think pollsters are looking for? Or that people will believe what they want to believe - or are conditioned to believe - regardless of all evidence to the contrary? The opinion survey that found this 34 percent brain-dead factor has a daunting name: The Program on International Policy Attitudes/Knowledge Networks Poll. But even if its name doesn't trip lyrically off the tongue, this poll, done at the University of Maryland, had a large enough sample to have a lot of credibility: 1,258 adults. It had a margin of error of 3.5 percent. It was conducted in mid-May, when it was blatantly obvious that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq - at least, not to that point. And it was as plain as the gas mask on your face that chemical or germ warfare had not been used on any of the troops sent to Iraq to look for those agents of war. Yet 22 percent of the people who responded to this poll believed that Iraq used chemical or biological weapons "in the war that just ended." Where do these people get their information? There's a serious warning here for those us who think we're engaged in the business of informing the public. Some people just aren't getting the message. And we're losing our credibility, from The New York Times down to small-town media. No matter what the facts are - or, maybe more to the point, regardless of what the news media say what the facts are - roughly a third of the population thinks it's all a bunch of lies. Made-up stuff. Liberal bias. Whatever. Before the war, President Bush and members of his administration argued repeatedly and prominently that Iraq had to be invaded because it was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction. The president now has declared that the major part of the fighting is over. But he never has said that weapons of mass destruction actually have been found in Iraq - and certainly never has claimed that WMDs were used against American troops. But for a lot of people, the original argument was good enough. If that was the Bush rationale, well, it must have a basis in fact. "It's partly a test of whether you believe the president," said Peggy Cuciti, who directs the "Mind of Colorado" poll conducted annual by the University of Colorado at Denver's Graduate School of Public Affairs. "They may just be saying they believe they're there." This is the sort of thing that creates peril for pollsters and jitters for journalists. The director of the University of Maryland's poll, Steve Kull, was quoted in a Knight Ridder report last weekend as finding the poll results "striking." To say the least. "Given the intensive news coverage and high levels of public attention," Kull said, "this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance." In other words, they won't accept facts that conflict with their biases. Kull said most of those who believed weapons had been found were supporters of the war. Weapons may yet be found, but it hasn't happened yet. That's not all, either. Another survey before the war in Iraq found that half of those polled believed Iraqis were among the Sept. 11 hijackers who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. But none of those 19 hijackers came from Iraq. Most were from Saudi Arabia. This survey does more than reflect the sad state of Americans' knowledge about public affairs. It also reflects poorly on a press whose judgments about what's truly important and what's merely interesting aren't always clear. If the media did a better job of interpreting accurately and with a sense of proportion, maybe its interpretations and analyses would have more credibility. Only a few people - a shrinking number, apparently - are willing to study current events in depth. Denver pollster Floyd Ciruli says between 2 and 10 percent of the population are "extremely involved" in following the news, and only 1 to 2 percent closely follow foreign affairs. And roughly 30 percent, he said, "will believe anything." "It's always amazing how ill-informed people are," said Lori Weigel, Denver-based vice president of Public Opinion Strategies. "But ask them who won 'American Idol' and they'll know." |
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[2] Posted by Iconoclast 06-22-2003, 12:04 PM |
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"Donald L Ferrt" <wolfbat359@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:b9eb3efe.0306220616.15f1bff2@posting.google.c om... > http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=co&u=www.denverpost.com > > fred brown > What can we learn from our ignorance? > By Fred Brown > > > If more than a third of Americans believes weapons of mass destruction > were found in Iraq, what does that tell us? > > That more than a third of the public is totally out of touch? > > That 34 percent of the people don't believe news reports? > > That roughly one in three people want to give the answers they think > pollsters are looking for? > > Or that people will believe what they want to believe - or are > conditioned to believe - regardless of all evidence to the contrary? > > The opinion survey that found this 34 percent brain-dead factor has a > daunting name: The Program on International Policy Attitudes/Knowledge > Networks Poll. > > But even if its name doesn't trip lyrically off the tongue, this poll, > done at the University of Maryland, had a large enough sample to have > a lot of credibility: 1,258 adults. It had a margin of error of 3.5 > percent. > > It was conducted in mid-May, when it was blatantly obvious that no > weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq - at least, not to > that point. > > And it was as plain as the gas mask on your face that chemical or germ > warfare had not been used on any of the troops sent to Iraq to look > for those agents of war. > > Yet 22 percent of the people who responded to this poll believed that > Iraq used chemical or biological weapons "in the war that just ended." > > Where do these people get their information? > > There's a serious warning here for those us who think we're engaged in > the business of informing the public. Some people just aren't getting > the message. And we're losing our credibility, from The New York Times > down to small-town media. > > No matter what the facts are - or, maybe more to the point, regardless > of what the news media say what the facts are - roughly a third of the > population thinks it's all a bunch of lies. Made-up stuff. Liberal > bias. Whatever. > > Before the war, President Bush and members of his administration > argued repeatedly and prominently that Iraq had to be invaded because > it was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction. > > The president now has declared that the major part of the fighting is > over. But he never has said that weapons of mass destruction actually > have been found in Iraq - and certainly never has claimed that WMDs > were used against American troops. > > But for a lot of people, the original argument was good enough. If > that was the Bush rationale, well, it must have a basis in fact. > > "It's partly a test of whether you believe the president," said Peggy > Cuciti, who directs the "Mind of Colorado" poll conducted annual by > the University of Colorado at Denver's Graduate School of Public > Affairs. "They may just be saying they believe they're there." > > This is the sort of thing that creates peril for pollsters and jitters > for journalists. > > The director of the University of Maryland's poll, Steve Kull, was > quoted in a Knight Ridder report last weekend as finding the poll > results "striking." To say the least. > > "Given the intensive news coverage and high levels of public > attention," Kull said, "this level of misinformation suggests some > Americans may be avoiding having an experience of cognitive > dissonance." > > In other words, they won't accept facts that conflict with their > biases. Kull said most of those who believed weapons had been found > were supporters of the war. > > Weapons may yet be found, but it hasn't happened yet. > > That's not all, either. Another survey before the war in Iraq found > that half of those polled believed Iraqis were among the Sept. 11 > hijackers who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center and the > Pentagon. > > But none of those 19 hijackers came from Iraq. Most were from Saudi > Arabia. > > This survey does more than reflect the sad state of Americans' > knowledge about public affairs. It also reflects poorly on a press > whose judgments about what's truly important and what's merely > interesting aren't always clear. > > If the media did a better job of interpreting accurately and with a > sense of proportion, maybe its interpretations and analyses would have > more credibility. > > Only a few people - a shrinking number, apparently - are willing to > study current events in depth. Denver pollster Floyd Ciruli says > between 2 and 10 percent of the population are "extremely involved" in > following the news, and only 1 to 2 percent closely follow foreign > affairs. > > And roughly 30 percent, he said, "will believe anything." > > "It's always amazing how ill-informed people are," said Lori Weigel, > Denver-based vice president of Public Opinion Strategies. > > "But ask them who won 'American Idol' and they'll know." Bush and the Repugs are counting on this general ignorance and lack of concern to insure their re-election. Another way to look at is when the leaders of the country believe a bunch of pap about WMD and imminent threats to the country what is Joe six-pack supposed to believe? If they get it wrong how are we supposed to get it right? Iconoclast |
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[3] Posted by Captain Compassion 06-22-2003, 02:34 PM |
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On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:04:17 GMT, "Iconoclast" <priapusx@yahoo.com>
wrote: > >"Donald L Ferrt" <wolfbat359@mindspring.com> wrote in message >news:b9eb3efe.0306220616.15f1bff2@posting.google. com... >> http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=co&u=www.denverpost.com >> >> fred brown >> What can we learn from our ignorance? >> By Fred Brown >> >> >> If more than a third of Americans believes weapons of mass destruction >> were found in Iraq, what does that tell us? >> >> That more than a third of the public is totally out of touch? >> >> That 34 percent of the people don't believe news reports? >> >> That roughly one in three people want to give the answers they think >> pollsters are looking for? >> >> Or that people will believe what they want to believe - or are >> conditioned to believe - regardless of all evidence to the contrary? >> >> The opinion survey that found this 34 percent brain-dead factor has a >> daunting name: The Program on International Policy Attitudes/Knowledge >> Networks Poll. >> >> But even if its name doesn't trip lyrically off the tongue, this poll, >> done at the University of Maryland, had a large enough sample to have >> a lot of credibility: 1,258 adults. It had a margin of error of 3.5 >> percent. >> >> It was conducted in mid-May, when it was blatantly obvious that no >> weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq - at least, not to >> that point. >> >> And it was as plain as the gas mask on your face that chemical or germ >> warfare had not been used on any of the troops sent to Iraq to look >> for those agents of war. >> >> Yet 22 percent of the people who responded to this poll believed that >> Iraq used chemical or biological weapons "in the war that just ended." >> >> Where do these people get their information? >> >> There's a serious warning here for those us who think we're engaged in >> the business of informing the public. Some people just aren't getting >> the message. And we're losing our credibility, from The New York Times >> down to small-town media. >> >> No matter what the facts are - or, maybe more to the point, regardless >> of what the news media say what the facts are - roughly a third of the >> population thinks it's all a bunch of lies. Made-up stuff. Liberal >> bias. Whatever. >> >> Before the war, President Bush and members of his administration >> argued repeatedly and prominently that Iraq had to be invaded because >> it was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction. >> >> The president now has declared that the major part of the fighting is >> over. But he never has said that weapons of mass destruction actually >> have been found in Iraq - and certainly never has claimed that WMDs >> were used against American troops. >> >> But for a lot of people, the original argument was good enough. If >> that was the Bush rationale, well, it must have a basis in fact. >> >> "It's partly a test of whether you believe the president," said Peggy >> Cuciti, who directs the "Mind of Colorado" poll conducted annual by >> the University of Colorado at Denver's Graduate School of Public >> Affairs. "They may just be saying they believe they're there." >> >> This is the sort of thing that creates peril for pollsters and jitters >> for journalists. >> >> The director of the University of Maryland's poll, Steve Kull, was >> quoted in a Knight Ridder report last weekend as finding the poll >> results "striking." To say the least. >> >> "Given the intensive news coverage and high levels of public >> attention," Kull said, "this level of misinformation suggests some >> Americans may be avoiding having an experience of cognitive >> dissonance." >> >> In other words, they won't accept facts that conflict with their >> biases. Kull said most of those who believed weapons had been found >> were supporters of the war. >> >> Weapons may yet be found, but it hasn't happened yet. >> >> That's not all, either. Another survey before the war in Iraq found >> that half of those polled believed Iraqis were among the Sept. 11 >> hijackers who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center and the >> Pentagon. >> >> But none of those 19 hijackers came from Iraq. Most were from Saudi >> Arabia. >> >> This survey does more than reflect the sad state of Americans' >> knowledge about public affairs. It also reflects poorly on a press >> whose judgments about what's truly important and what's merely >> interesting aren't always clear. >> >> If the media did a better job of interpreting accurately and with a >> sense of proportion, maybe its interpretations and analyses would have >> more credibility. >> >> Only a few people - a shrinking number, apparently - are willing to >> study current events in depth. Denver pollster Floyd Ciruli says >> between 2 and 10 percent of the population are "extremely involved" in >> following the news, and only 1 to 2 percent closely follow foreign >> affairs. >> >> And roughly 30 percent, he said, "will believe anything." >> >> "It's always amazing how ill-informed people are," said Lori Weigel, >> Denver-based vice president of Public Opinion Strategies. >> >> "But ask them who won 'American Idol' and they'll know." > >Bush and the Repugs are counting on this general ignorance and lack of >concern to insure their re-election. Another way to look at is when the >leaders of the country believe a bunch of pap about WMD and imminent threats >to the country what is Joe six-pack supposed to believe? If they get it >wrong how are we supposed to get it right? >Iconoclast > Here's a thought. According to Democrats you're smart if you vote for Democrats and stupid if you vote for Republicans. The fact that Bush is president is that people are stupid. In the two presidental elections before Bush the people voted for a Democrat so they must have been smart. This would lead one to believe that haveing a Democrat president makes smart people stupid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Giving society cheap abundant energy . . . would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun." -- Dr. Paul Ehrlich "There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil." -- Ayn Rand "...observe that in all the propaganda of the ecologists amidst all their appeals to nature and pleas for 'harmony with nature' there is no discussion of man's needs and the requirements of his survival. Man is treated as if he were an unnatural phenomenon. Man cannot survive in the kind of state of nature that the ecologists envision i.e., on the level of sea urchins or polar bears..." - AYN RAND "The Anti-Industrial Revolution," The New Left, 136. "In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'" -- Dosteovsky Joseph R. Darancette res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net |
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[4] Posted by Iconoclast 06-22-2003, 03:45 PM |
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"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message news:3ef5e71b.7761129@news.verizon.net... > On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:04:17 GMT, "Iconoclast" <priapusx@yahoo.com> > wrote: >> > > >Bush and the Repugs are counting on this general ignorance and lack of > >concern to insure their re-election. Another way to look at is when the > >leaders of the country believe a bunch of pap about WMD and imminent threats > >to the country what is Joe six-pack supposed to believe? If they get it > >wrong how are we supposed to get it right? > >Iconoclast > > > Here's a thought. According to Democrats you're smart if you vote for > Democrats and stupid if you vote for Republicans. The fact that Bush > is president is that people are stupid. In the two presidental > elections before Bush the people voted for a Democrat so they must > have been smart. This would lead one to believe that haveing a > Democrat president makes smart people stupid. Interesting logic. Well, it is a proven fact that Americans are getting stupider. Anybody who has followed test scores in the schools through the years has seen that. There are many other examples like the number of people who believe in astrology or that Iraq attacked America or that WMD were used in the war. As far as presidents and politicians are concerned they all lie and distort facts to their own uses so you have to assess the gravity of the distortions. I happen to think that dragging a country into a war is more serious that a sexual misdeed, maybe you don't. Iconoclast |
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[5] Posted by WIlliam G. Moore 06-22-2003, 04:51 PM |
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On 22 Jun 2003 07:16:08 -0700, wolfbat359@mindspring.com (Donald L Ferrt) wrote:
> http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=co&u=www.denverpost.com > > fred brown > What can we learn from our ignorance? > By Fred Brown > > > If more than a third of Americans believes weapons of mass destruction > were found in Iraq, what does that tell us? It tells us less that 2/3 of Americans are well informed and it shows us how silly these polls are. It shows you are not in the 1/3 "well informed" Weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq - there is simply no doubt. The 1/3 are right. The UN says that, every major intelligence service in the world says that, the Bush administration says that, the Clinton administration said that - there is simply no doubt. The debate now is as to whether Saddam destroyed them gratuitously after 1998 or not but that's not what the question asks. It asks if WMD have been found and the answer is "YES". The time frame is not clear in the question so the results have no meaning. As per the UN and every major world leader and 2 US Presidents, Iraq had weapons of mass destruction as late as 1998 and they were found. Look for the list on the UN web site. As per Dr. Blix and his 1/27/2003 report to the UN, 1,000 tonnes of chemical weapons were "unaccounted" for and that is on the UN web site too. If the question had been properly framed to ask "Have WMD been found in Iraq SINCE the war ended". I suspect most people would answer "NO." (URLs to the UN web site posted below) > That more than a third of the public is totally out of touch? > > That 34 percent of the people don't believe news reports? > > That roughly one in three people want to give the answers they think > pollsters are looking for? > > Or that people will believe what they want to believe - or are > conditioned to believe - regardless of all evidence to the contrary? > > The opinion survey that found this 34 percent brain-dead factor has a > daunting name: The Program on International Policy Attitudes/Knowledge > Networks Poll. > > But even if its name doesn't trip lyrically off the tongue, this poll, > done at the University of Maryland, had a large enough sample to have > a lot of credibility: 1,258 adults. It had a margin of error of 3.5 > percent. > How little you must know about polls. The question was clearly framed improperly so the results just have no meaning at all. > It was conducted in mid-May, when it was blatantly obvious that no > weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq - at least, not to > that point. > WOW - you must be uninformed. Don't you read the papers? Don't you know about UN weapons inspectors and what they've been doing for the last 10 years? Haven't you seen the inventory? Are you unaware of Iraq's own weapons declarations that list these weapons? Of course WMD have been found. Go to the UN web site at http://www.un.org/Depts/unscom/Achie...ievements.html See the list of what's been found: - 38,537 filled and empty chemical munitions - 690 tonnes of chemical weapons agent - more than 3,000 tonnes of precursors chemicals - 426 pieces of chemical weapons production equipment - 91 pieces of related analytical instruments - the entire Al-Hakam, the main biological weapons production facility - a variety of biological weapons production equipment and materials,537 filled and empty chemical munitions - 690 tonnes of chemical weapons agent - more than 3,000 tonnes of precursors chemicals - 426 pieces of chemical weapons production equipment - 91 pieces of related analytical instruments - the entire Al-Hakam, the main biological weapons production facility - a variety of biological weapons production equipment and materials Then go read the report Dr. Blix filed on January 27, 2003 at http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/Bx27.htm. When you're done, post an apology for being so stupid. > And it was as plain as the gas mask on your face that chemical or germ > warfare had not been used on any of the troops sent to Iraq to look > for those agents of war. > > Yet 22 percent of the people who responded to this poll believed that > Iraq used chemical or biological weapons "in the war that just ended." > > Where do these people get their information? > > There's a serious warning here for those us who think we're engaged in > the business of informing the public. Some people just aren't getting > the message. And we're losing our credibility, from The New York Times > down to small-town media. > > No matter what the facts are - or, maybe more to the point, regardless > of what the news media say what the facts are - roughly a third of the > population thinks it's all a bunch of lies. Made-up stuff. Liberal > bias. Whatever. > > Before the war, President Bush and members of his administration > argued repeatedly and prominently that Iraq had to be invaded because > it was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction. > > The president now has declared that the major part of the fighting is > over. But he never has said that weapons of mass destruction actually > have been found in Iraq - and certainly never has claimed that WMDs > were used against American troops. > > But for a lot of people, the original argument was good enough. If > that was the Bush rationale, well, it must have a basis in fact. > > "It's partly a test of whether you believe the president," said Peggy > Cuciti, who directs the "Mind of Colorado" poll conducted annual by > the University of Colorado at Denver's Graduate School of Public > Affairs. "They may just be saying they believe they're there." > > This is the sort of thing that creates peril for pollsters and jitters > for journalists. > > The director of the University of Maryland's poll, Steve Kull, was > quoted in a Knight Ridder report last weekend as finding the poll > results "striking." To say the least. > > "Given the intensive news coverage and high levels of public > attention," Kull said, "this level of misinformation suggests some > Americans may be avoiding having an experience of cognitive > dissonance." > > In other words, they won't accept facts that conflict with their > biases. Kull said most of those who believed weapons had been found > were supporters of the war. > > Weapons may yet be found, but it hasn't happened yet. > > That's not all, either. Another survey before the war in Iraq found > that half of those polled believed Iraqis were among the Sept. 11 > hijackers who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center and the > Pentagon. > > But none of those 19 hijackers came from Iraq. Most were from Saudi > Arabia. > > This survey does more than reflect the sad state of Americans' > knowledge about public affairs. It also reflects poorly on a press > whose judgments about what's truly important and what's merely > interesting aren't always clear. > > If the media did a better job of interpreting accurately and with a > sense of proportion, maybe its interpretations and analyses would have > more credibility. > > Only a few people - a shrinking number, apparently - are willing to > study current events in depth. Denver pollster Floyd Ciruli says > between 2 and 10 percent of the population are "extremely involved" in > following the news, and only 1 to 2 percent closely follow foreign > affairs. > > And roughly 30 percent, he said, "will believe anything." > > "It's always amazing how ill-informed people are," said Lori Weigel, > Denver-based vice president of Public Opinion Strategies. > > "But ask them who won 'American Idol' and they'll know." -- Bill |
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[6] Posted by J 06-22-2003, 05:22 PM |
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A big part of the reason people don't believe what they see and hear from
the "news" media is because they've been lied to over and over again, either by design or because of a deadline. With the advent of the Internet, the people know it now so they refuse to believe anything. Consider: Walter Duranty, of the New York Times, wrote a series of stories that were wholesale lies about the deliberate starvation of millions of people in the Ukraine, by Stalin, in the 1930s. He was awarded the Pulitzer Prize and the NYT did not refuse it, nor have they given it back. Or Janet Cook and the eight year old heroin addict.. Or Jason Blair and any story he reported on. Or ABC and the exploding gas tanks. And on ad infinitum. Local print and TV news is no better. Every news story that I have personal knowledge of is wrong in some fundamental way. Except for the stories of ribbon cutting ceremonies and such The only way to get near the truth is first to omit the sources who are known for not telling the truth, assume the story is a lie, check the facts from several different sources and correlate them. Then maybe, perhaps, but never for sure, you will have something that fits the general outlines of the truth if you're lucky. As for Fox news, I would trust their reporting more than I would the New York Times, or ABC-CBS-NBC. I don't even read the NYT anymore. Anytime I start reading a news story and discover it originated with the NYT, I just turn the page, or click to the next site. Amos-the-Bartender "Donald L Ferrt" <wolfbat359@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:b9eb3efe.0306220616.15f1bff2@posting.google.c om... > http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=co&u=www.denverpost.com > > fred brown > What can we learn from our ignorance? > By Fred Brown > > > If more than a third of Americans believes weapons of mass destruction > were found in Iraq, what does that tell us? > > That more than a third of the public is totally out of touch? > > That 34 percent of the people don't believe news reports? > > That roughly one in three people want to give the answers they think > pollsters are looking for? > > Or that people will believe what they want to believe - or are > conditioned to believe - regardless of all evidence to the contrary? > > The opinion survey that found this 34 percent brain-dead factor has a > daunting name: The Program on International Policy Attitudes/Knowledge > Networks Poll. > > But even if its name doesn't trip lyrically off the tongue, this poll, > done at the University of Maryland, had a large enough sample to have > a lot of credibility: 1,258 adults. It had a margin of error of 3.5 > percent. > > It was conducted in mid-May, when it was blatantly obvious that no > weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq - at least, not to > that point. > > And it was as plain as the gas mask on your face that chemical or germ > warfare had not been used on any of the troops sent to Iraq to look > for those agents of war. > > Yet 22 percent of the people who responded to this poll believed that > Iraq used chemical or biological weapons "in the war that just ended." > > Where do these people get their information? > > There's a serious warning here for those us who think we're engaged in > the business of informing the public. Some people just aren't getting > the message. And we're losing our credibility, from The New York Times > down to small-town media. > sniporeeno |
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[7] Posted by Foxtrot 06-22-2003, 06:25 PM |
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"Iconoclast" <priapusx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote >> Here's a thought. According to Democrats you're smart if you vote for >> Democrats and stupid if you vote for Republicans. The fact that Bush >> is president is that people are stupid. In the two presidental >> elections before Bush the people voted for a Democrat so they must >> have been smart. This would lead one to believe that haveing a >> Democrat president makes smart people stupid. Dems can't be too smart, some of them were too stupid to follow an arrow about .01 inches on the Florida ballots to vote for Gore in 2000. >Interesting logic. Well, it is a proven fact that Americans are getting >stupider. Anybody who has followed test scores in the schools through the >years has seen that. Care to guess which political party has a stranglehold on those American schools which are making kids so stupid? > As far as presidents and politicians are concerned they all lie and >distort facts to their own uses so you have to assess the gravity of the >distortions. I happen to think that dragging a country into a war is more >serious that a sexual misdeed, maybe you don't. UN Resolution 1441, which was UNANIMOUSLY passed by the Security Council (which had Syria as a temporary member), said Iraq had WMDs. Were all those nations lying too? |
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[8] Posted by Jeffrey Turner 06-22-2003, 08:57 PM |
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J wrote:
> A big part of the reason people don't believe what they see and hear from > the "news" media is because they've been lied to over and over again, either > by design or because of a deadline. With the advent of the Internet, the > people know it now so they refuse to believe anything. > > Consider: Walter Duranty, of the New York Times, wrote a series of stories > that were wholesale lies about the deliberate starvation of millions of > people in the Ukraine, by Stalin, in the 1930s. I remember that. I was about 35, myself, I hated being lied to like that. --Jeff |
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[9] Posted by Iconoclast 06-22-2003, 09:00 PM |
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"Foxtrot" <foxtrot@null.com> wrote in message news:q57cfv4ojhf2pfd3hullnrt5lttsc2f0ve@4ax.com... > > Care to guess which political party has a stranglehold on > those American schools which are making kids so stupid? Yeah right! Care to guess why doctors, lawyers, scientists, teachers, university professors and other highly educated people are liberals? And why there are so many liberals in universities. I guess its because, according to you liberals are stupid. The more they learn, the dumber they get. > UN Resolution 1441, which was UNANIMOUSLY passed by > the Security Council (which had Syria as a temporary member), > said Iraq had WMDs. Were all those nations lying too? Nobody in the UN except Bush and Blair wanted to go rushing into war. Maybe you don't quite remember but most of the world wanted more time for the inspections to play out. Now guess who wants more time and wants us to be patient. Iconoclast |
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[10] Posted by Captain Compassion 06-22-2003, 09:44 PM |
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On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:45:00 GMT, "Iconoclast" <priapusx@yahoo.com>
wrote: > >"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message >news:3ef5e71b.7761129@news.verizon.net... >> On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:04:17 GMT, "Iconoclast" <priapusx@yahoo.com> >> wrote: >>> > >> >Bush and the Repugs are counting on this general ignorance and lack of >> >concern to insure their re-election. Another way to look at is when the >> >leaders of the country believe a bunch of pap about WMD and imminent >threats >> >to the country what is Joe six-pack supposed to believe? If they get it >> >wrong how are we supposed to get it right? >> >Iconoclast >> > >> Here's a thought. According to Democrats you're smart if you vote for >> Democrats and stupid if you vote for Republicans. The fact that Bush >> is president is that people are stupid. In the two presidental >> elections before Bush the people voted for a Democrat so they must >> have been smart. This would lead one to believe that haveing a >> Democrat president makes smart people stupid. > >Interesting logic. Well, it is a proven fact that Americans are getting >stupider. Anybody who has followed test scores in the schools through the >years has seen that. There are many other examples like the number of people >who believe in astrology or that Iraq attacked America or that WMD were used >in the war. > As far as presidents and politicians are concerned they all lie and >distort facts to their own uses so you have to assess the gravity of the >distortions. I happen to think that dragging a country into a war is more >serious that a sexual misdeed, maybe you don't. That's beside the point. What caused the surge in stupidity between 1996 and 2000? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Giving society cheap abundant energy . . . would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun." -- Dr. Paul Ehrlich "There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil." -- Ayn Rand "...observe that in all the propaganda of the ecologists amidst all their appeals to nature and pleas for 'harmony with nature' there is no discussion of man's needs and the requirements of his survival. Man is treated as if he were an unnatural phenomenon. Man cannot survive in the kind of state of nature that the ecologists envision i.e., on the level of sea urchins or polar bears..." - AYN RAND "The Anti-Industrial Revolution," The New Left, 136. "In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'" -- Dosteovsky Joseph R. Darancette res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net |
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