I was at a local tournament supporting my team, Awaken Atmans. We placed
third over-all. I am very pleased with this. However, I have come to
realize the extent at which some of the teams will do anything to either
win or make the other look bad.

Two teams we played, and beat I might add(Hellfire and Starbucks Sucks)
are openly accusing us of rigging games and paying off refs. I am so
disgusted by this because the latter team has stole 4 of our series
points and 15 of our game points, by blatant lying. If you want the
story of how they did that, I can post it.

Anyway, if you are ever in the Southern California area, never trust a
person named Adam or one named Devin as they will stab you in the back
so fast it is not even funny.

John if you give me some real detail, i have a large say-so there.
"John Comma Smith" <courage@nowhere.kansas> wrote in message
news:sONTe.18947$sw6.1867@fed1read05...
> I was at a local tournament supporting my team, Awaken Atmans. We placed
> third over-all. I am very pleased with this. However, I have come to
> realize the extent at which some of the teams will do anything to either
> win or make the other look bad.
>
> Two teams we played, and beat I might add(Hellfire and Starbucks Sucks)
> are openly accusing us of rigging games and paying off refs. I am so
> disgusted by this because the latter team has stole 4 of our series
> points and 15 of our game points, by blatant lying. If you want the
> story of how they did that, I can post it.
>
> Anyway, if you are ever in the Southern California area, never trust a
> person named Adam or one named Devin as they will stab you in the back
> so fast it is not even funny.

Tony Sr. wrote:
> John if you give me some real detail, i have a large say-so there.

First off, let me give you a little history:

Awaken Atmans was once an A and B team. They comprised of myself, my bro
and an another friend of ours on A. On B it consisted of Devin Turner
and Adam Macaque(not 100% on the last name, I will look it up and post
later) and another really good friend of ours. Anyway, we got together
and played the first summer series. B did alright and A got it handed to
us. My captain did not want to play the second series, so Adam and Devin
got really pissed off. They call us names, and formed their own team,
Starbucks Sucks(the name is supposedly for a sponsorship).

That was fine by me, as I never really liked them, and our good friend
stayed with us. However, Adam and Devin could not leave it at that, they
lied to Art Jr. and Denise and said that they changed their name to
Starbucks Sucks, taking our series points with them(our good friend was
the captain of that team). We fought them and fought them, the lied and
personally threatened us, but in the end, they ended up with the points.

The third series was a blast, and there was none of this accusations of
cheating and rigging that we have now.

Now this series was a whole different story. In my opinion, the reffing
was really good. There were only two iffy calls and one weird one. The
first iffy was a one on one and my captain tagged the guy out like 2
inches from putting the flag on the post, the ref ruled in our favor.
The second iffy one was when one of our players was being bunkered, he
was hit, yet the other was called for playing on, as he had been hit,
the ref ruled for us.

The last weird one was in the finals with Hellfire, it came down to one
on one and they grabbed the flag. It was a firefight between the last
two, he tagged our guy out. However when Jeff was checking their player,
the player was moving his tank in a wiping motion, and under it was a
paintball mark, he was called out and the game was tied at 6 and 6
points each.

Now when we played Starbucks on NPPL, we got all their players out,
grabbed and hung the flag, only suffering one casualty. The problem is,
the refs got the points backwards, giving each teams the others. My
captain signed it, unfortunately, and we din't realize until we were
checking our standings at noon. We called Adam over, and he lied and
lied. He said that he pulled the flag first and a member of our team
bunkered him, thereby cheating us out of 15 points, funny part is, I
have the whole game on video.

Now since the tournament, both hellfire and Starbucks have been accusing
us of cheating, lieing, bribing, and rigging games. They have no
validity, and they have no proof. I know you do not know me that well,
but everyone on this team are upstanding people. They have Christian
values, and they all play fairly. This is how the Summer Series went for
us. I am not going to make a big deal of it, as it is over, but it just
makes me so angry that people that have cheated us are accusing us of
cheating.

Sorry that that is out of chronological order.

Tony Sr. wrote:
> John if you give me some real detail, i have a large say-so there.


I should also probably mention that this is not my real name. My real
name is Levi Lentz, and my bros name is Dillon. Sorry if you have come
ot know me as john, you can still call me that if you would like, but
this is a name I use on the usenet, that actually has a funny story
behing it.

OK John, if you want me to do something about it just say the word. there
will be more tournys coming soon there also. now if you want my help there
is a lot that can be done here. First off Denise will not tolerate that at
all. so just let me know if you want to expand on this or if you want Art
and Daryl to just know and keep there eyes open more.

tony....
also why did you not stop by and say hello?
"John Comma Smith" <courage@nowhere.kansas> wrote in message
news:Q3PTe.18961$sw6.13284@fed1read05...
> Tony Sr. wrote:
> > John if you give me some real detail, i have a large say-so there.
>
>
> I should also probably mention that this is not my real name. My real
> name is Levi Lentz, and my bros name is Dillon. Sorry if you have come
> ot know me as john, you can still call me that if you would like, but
> this is a name I use on the usenet, that actually has a funny story
> behing it.

No offense, but the whole story looks like a big old fashioned rag-fest.
What's on the line, other than pride and prize money that wouldn't begin to
cover the amount of paint you shot to win that money?

Let me put it to you this way: since the money is basically a wash(costs
null out money won), the only thing left is pride. For what it's worth, any
semblance of dignity you once may have had went out the window when you
responded to their accusations. So, everybody loses.

Not fer nothin, but if someone accused me of that level of cheating(bribery,
rigging, etc), I would just look at them and laugh(and throw in a "dude, you
lost, get over it" for good measure). I wouldn't even bother defending
myself. Nobody wins that fight, ever. Even the guys who win are losers for
having taken part in the exercise. The sooner you learn that, the happier
you'll be.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right


"John Comma Smith" <courage@nowhere.kansas> wrote in message
news:sONTe.18947$sw6.1867@fed1read05...
> I was at a local tournament supporting my team, Awaken Atmans. We placed
> third over-all. I am very pleased with this. However, I have come to
> realize the extent at which some of the teams will do anything to either
> win or make the other look bad.
>
> Two teams we played, and beat I might add(Hellfire and Starbucks Sucks)
> are openly accusing us of rigging games and paying off refs. I am so
> disgusted by this because the latter team has stole 4 of our series
> points and 15 of our game points, by blatant lying. If you want the
> story of how they did that, I can post it.
>
> Anyway, if you are ever in the Southern California area, never trust a
> person named Adam or one named Devin as they will stab you in the back
> so fast it is not even funny.

Hey I think that the organization should be made aware that way the
cheaters and habitual's can be watched in the future and to let them
know that it will not be tolerated. After all if there were others
watching the tourney they saw what was happening and to condone it
would truly be branding the sport of accepted behaviors.

I also agree that you should use documentation and videos before it is
just word of mouth since word of mouth carries both ways and they have
already won once by this means.

I agree with Jeff also as to continue arguing between the two teams
would just add to what is visible by spectators. Crack out the video
if you have it and prove the point and then the offending team will
get themselves a nice little rep and penalized in the future.

After all what is done is already done and they have already received
notoriety for the win in public through whatever means (cheating or
whatever). Make like Missouri and "Show Me" (show the vids) and let
them (the refs and officials) see what happened and where the truth
is.
SurferOne

The Info Nut Cruising Through

"Tony Sr." <amargio1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:0ERTe.19817$sw6.6959@fed1read05...

> OK John, if you want me to do something about it just say the word. there
> will be more tournys coming soon there also. now if you want my help there
> is a lot that can be done here. First off Denise will not tolerate that at
> all. so just let me know if you want to expand on this or if you want Art
> and Daryl to just know and keep there eyes open more.
>
> tony....

Every few weeks a bunch of buddies of mine come back from reffing some
tournament or other, sometimes a regional rookie-amateur event, sometimes
one of the big pro events, and the stories they tell.... One piece of
advice, *never* sign anything until you're 101% sure it's correct, because
once the captain's scrawl is on that piece of paper it's all over but the
crying.

What it comes down to is whether there is convincing evidence to back up
this story. If not, then it amounts to pissing into the wind, he said, the
other guy said, how are the people in charge supposed to know who is telling
the truth? And even if there is proof, what can they do, it's become holy
writ in tournament paintball that once the game is over, it's over, nothing
can be changed after the fact. That was one of the things the teams in the
original NPPL were so anxious to get because it shielded them from being
penalized after the game, thus good old Ron K. can admit after a winning
game that gave them a first-place NPPL win that he wiped in the game, in
front of the refs mind you, and the result for his team is *zero* -- they
still got the win.

And consider this Tony, you're offering to have a word with the people in
charge to get this fixed somehow, how does that look to the teams who don't
know somebody with connections? I know your heart is in the right place,
but you need to be real careful how you handle this. I once went to bat for
a team accused of cheating, with the passage of time I had reason to wonder
if I'd done the right thing, which isn't to say the complaint in this thread
isn't legit, just don't put yourself in the middle unless you're real sure
your back is covered.

"Hardtime" <hardtime11@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:v7e0i1lgbv3cmhcb4icdnb1q08nmk5hlqv@4ax.com...
> Hey I think that the organization should be made aware that way the
> cheaters and habitual's can be watched in the future and to let them
> know that it will not be tolerated.

"let them know that it will not be tolerated..." Hrm. Let me just think
about that for a moment. Since there is almost NO regulating authority that
has effectively let teams know cheating won't be tolerated, it won't do much
good to ***** to the regulating authority and ask them to keep better tabs
on people who are suspected of cheating.

Face it, cheating is rampant, and the only way to REALLY be successful is to
fight fire with fire, unfortunately. You can play a cheat-free game in
tournaments, but you're not going to get very far. Cheat-free with get you
like 3rd in a local tournament. The simple reality is, despite the old
adage, cheaters really DO prosper in paintball.

Anyone in tournaments who bitches about the cheating is simply ignoring the
reality of our sport(even though it really shouldn't be like this in a
utopian world).

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

Tony Sr. wrote:
> OK John, if you want me to do something about it just say the word. there
> will be more tournys coming soon there also. now if you want my help there
> is a lot that can be done here. First off Denise will not tolerate that at
> all. so just let me know if you want to expand on this or if you want Art
> and Daryl to just know and keep there eyes open more.
>
> tony....


I appreciate the help, but the tournament is over. We have been going
round and round about this before the tournament, so it is pretty much
over. Just don't trust Adam or Devin. They are there and no team likes
them. Just they will befrind you to use you, I have tons of stories like
this about them...