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[1] Posted by Bruce Chang 05-17-2005, 07:01 PM |
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So yesterday I received the box containing my autococker. It's much heavier
than the piranha I own. I'm impressed with how it's built. I have a couple questions: It's got a leak at the 3-way. I emailed WGP and they're sending me O-rings for the actuating rod and that should solve that leak. How hard is it to time autocockers? I looked at the pages on otterscustoms and the explanation looks pretty straight-forward and everyone says timing a gun is really difficult. I'm a handy guy and I've already stripped down the whole marker (except for the valve) to see how it works. (it fired a couple times before the 3-way started to leak). I know how it's supposed to work and have a good idea behind the theory. I assume timing is just something that will come with experience? Also, I have a pure energy regulator that I can put on it. Is that a good idea? I'm not quite ready to drop $60 for a palmer stabilizer. I think stock is just an expansion chamber of sorts. If it's not, then it's a non-adjustable regulator. Lastly, does anyone use an autococker to spyder thread adapter? I'm considering one because I already have spyder threaded barrels (J&J ceramic and 32 degrees terminator) that I like and don't mind using. Would it be worth the money to get a better autococker threaded barrel? Thanks for your advice over the past year. -Bruce |
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[2] Posted by Ayar 05-17-2005, 09:26 PM |
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Welcome to autocockers, Bruce. You've got a fine piece of machinery there,
and I feel that everyone should own one at one point or another. Additional comments embedded below: "Bruce Chang" <bechang@swspambegonebell.net> wrote in message news:QQtie.1115$5Z1.889@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com ... > So yesterday I received the box containing my autococker. It's much > heavier than the piranha I own. Like a good broadsword. >I'm impressed with how it's built. Yeah, the thing that first struck me as cool was the little itty bitty set screw that holds the safety detente ball in place. They could've just used a pin. > I have a couple questions: > > It's got a leak at the 3-way. Don't panic. That's somewhat normal, actually. The rings may just need a good lubing. I use lots of Battle Lube on mine, and as long as I keep 'em lightly greasy, they never leak. >I emailed WGP and they're sending me O-rings for the actuating rod and that >should solve that leak. Just keep 'em lubed. That's why the actuator rod detatches. > How hard is it to time autocockers? I looked at the pages on > otterscustoms and the explanation looks pretty straight-forward and > everyone says timing a gun is really difficult. It's not hard at all. It sounds intimidating to coordinate the simultaneous movement of three different subsystems, but once you understand the principle, it all falls into place. I was able to time mine after only an hour or so of tinkering. I'm certainly not an expert like Jose or Mitch, but I get the job done. And if I can do it, you can do it. >I'm a handy guy and I've already stripped down the whole marker (except for >the valve) to see how it works. A man after my own heart. I did that exact same thing. I liked it so much, I custom-built my own from the ground up, using the best parts I could afford. It took me about 6 months, but that was largely due to funding issued. All in all, I would say it took about an afternoon from parts to perfection. Those of you who've already seen it, just roll your eyes and move on. Bruce, here's what it looks like. I built it for my wife: http://home.insightbb.com/~autococker/Erriclepage.htm >(it fired a couple times before the 3-way started to leak). I know how >it's supposed to work and have a good idea behind the theory. I assume >timing is just something that will come with experience? Bruce, it sounds to me like you are more than qualified to maintain and time an autococker. Don't be afraid to ask for help, either. Many people on this forum are incredible sources of technical information and assistance. > > Also, I have a pure energy regulator that I can put on it. Is that a good > idea? I'm not quite ready to drop $60 for a palmer stabilizer. I think > stock is just an expansion chamber of sorts. If it's not, then it's a > non-adjustable regulator. I don't know much about Pure Energy. I do have a Palmer Stablizer, and as far as I'm concerned, it's the Cadillac of regs. Worth waiting for. > > Lastly, does anyone use an autococker to spyder thread adapter? I'm > considering one because I already have spyder threaded barrels (J&J > ceramic and 32 degrees terminator) that I like and don't mind using. > Would it be worth the money to get a better autococker threaded barrel? > I have no experience with Spyder thread adaptors, but as far as spending more on a barrel, don't. If you have one that works for you now, there's no sense fixing what ain't broke. Unless, of course, the thread adaptor throws the whole thing off. > Thanks for your advice over the past year. > And thanks for your cheerful and intelligent participation in our group. :-) |
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[3] Posted by Rick Scott 05-18-2005, 01:52 AM |
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(Bruce Chang <bechang@swspambegonebell.net> uttered
 > Also, I have a pure energy regulator that I can put on it. Is that > a good idea? I'm not quite ready to drop $60 for a palmer > stabilizer. I think stock is just an expansion chamber of sorts. > If it's not, then it's a non-adjustable regulator. I believe that the reg that a stock 'cocker ships with is in fact adjustable, but that you have to partially disassemble it to do so. Rick -- key CF8F8A75 / print C5C1 F87D 5056 D2C0 D5CE D58F 970F 04D1 CF8F 8A75 One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well. :Virginia Woolf |
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[4] Posted by Jesse Felt 05-18-2005, 10:21 AM |
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It probably depends on which cocker you get. I just got the outkast and
I thinkit comes with the same reg as the prostock. I am pretty sure it is adjustable on the underside, unless thats just a plug. I haven't fully torn mine down yet since I don't have much table space and the cocker contains so many tiny set screws I don't want to lose them (like I almost did with the safety ball and spring when I torn my grip frame apart out of sheer curiosity  So far I haven't gotten a chance to play with mine yet, only fired a hopper through one day at lunch when I was working at the ball field. I am totally in love with it and can't wait to get out and qork up a sweat with it. Lemme ask you Bruce, what was it that lead you to pick a cocker over something else? Way back when I used to absolutely HATE cockers, I always thought they were like a bloated pig compared to the mag and I dreamt of one day owning an automag. Until one day I saw a hopped up cocker and the guy was playing with the recock and I fell in love with the backblock. From that day I wanted a cocker. Also, read up on sweet spotting your reg. I think my first upgrade (after a kaner barrel system) will be an orracle 3way (CT with the adjuster knob) I know a guy who had a 1mm rod movement which equalled a 2.25mm trigger pull!! I don't want one THAT short, but definitely a bit shorter than stock Rick Scott wrote: > (Bruce Chang <bechang@swspambegonebell.net> uttered > >>Also, I have a pure energy regulator that I can put on it. Is that >>a good idea? I'm not quite ready to drop $60 for a palmer >>stabilizer. I think stock is just an expansion chamber of sorts. >>If it's not, then it's a non-adjustable regulator. > > > I believe that the reg that a stock 'cocker ships with is in fact > adjustable, but that you have to partially disassemble it to do so. > > > > > Rick |
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[5] Posted by Bruce Chang 05-18-2005, 01:26 PM |
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"Ayar" <autococker@SPAMMEANDDIEinsightbb.com> wrote in message news:ZYvie.2472$796.648@attbi_s21... > Welcome to autocockers, Bruce. You've got a fine piece of machinery > there, and I feel that everyone should own one at one point or another. > > Additional comments embedded below: > > >>I'm impressed with how it's built. > > Yeah, the thing that first struck me as cool was the little itty bitty set > screw that holds the safety detente ball in place. They could've just > used a pin. > >>I'm a handy guy and I've already stripped down the whole marker (except >>for the valve) to see how it works. > > A man after my own heart. I did that exact same thing. I liked it so > much, I custom-built my own from the ground up, using the best parts I > could afford. It took me about 6 months, but that was largely due to > funding issued. All in all, I would say it took about an afternoon from > parts to perfection. Those of you who've already seen it, just roll your > eyes and move on. Bruce, here's what it looks like. I built it for my > wife: > > http://home.insightbb.com/~autococker/Erriclepage.htm > > > >>(it fired a couple times before the 3-way started to leak). I know how >>it's supposed to work and have a good idea behind the theory. I assume >>timing is just something that will come with experience? > > Bruce, it sounds to me like you are more than qualified to maintain and > time an autococker. Don't be afraid to ask for help, either. Many people > on this forum are incredible sources of technical information and > assistance. > >> Thanks for your advice over the past year. > > And thanks for your cheerful and intelligent participation in our group. > Thanks Eric, Thanks for your vote of confidence. I am pretty handy so I have that going for me. Of course I've heard that replacing an engine is hard too but I've done that too. I guess we'll just have to see. There are only so many possibilities (I originally wrote permutations but it's not really since the adjustments aren't discrete) that eventually the thing should work. I figure if I be methodical, it will eventually work. I found it amusing you called your wife's autococker, the Erricle. And it's a beaut. My question is, how much did it cost you? I know I'm going to go on an upgrade frenzy, I just need to decide what way I want to do it. More than likely, I'll just buy other autocockers off ebay and steal what I want and sell what I don't use. That's what I've been doing for just about everything other hobby I have. If anyone has any parts sitting around, let me know. I might be interested. -Bruce |
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[6] Posted by Bruce Chang 05-18-2005, 01:33 PM |
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> Lemme ask you Bruce, what was it that lead you to pick a cocker over > something else? Way back when I used to absolutely HATE cockers, I always > thought they were like a bloated pig compared to the mag and I dreamt of > one day owning an automag. Until one day I saw a hopped up cocker and the > guy was playing with the recock and I fell in love with the backblock. > From that day I wanted a cocker. > > Also, read up on sweet spotting your reg. I think my first upgrade (after > a kaner barrel system) will be an orracle 3way (CT with the adjuster knob) > I know a guy who had a 1mm rod movement which equalled a 2.25mm trigger > pull!! I don't want one THAT short, but definitely a bit shorter than > stock > Why? As far as everyone here is concerned, the 'cocker is a tinkerer's dream. If you've seen my previous posts, I've been trying to do everything I can to my Piranha short of buying aftermarket parts. My main goal, as with every paintball player, is to have an accurate marker that I can play with on the field and one that I can tinker with when I'm not on the field. I know there are a lot of people that really like the automag and I saw one for cheap so I thought I might bid on it but I set out to find an autococker and my mind was made up. What were my other choices? I already had my fill of the spyder clones. Then there's an automag and the autococker. Tippmann just didn't appeal to me. I also wanted something quiet and of the markers I've seen on the local field, the 'cocker sounded pretty good. All the high end markers were out of my league price-wise: Shockers and whatever else there is. -Bruce |
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[7] Posted by Ayar 05-18-2005, 08:03 PM |
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"Bruce Chang" <bechang@swspambegonebell.net> wrote in message news:y0Kie.1746$5Z1.1323@newssvr30.news.prodigy.co m... > > There are only so many possibilities (I originally wrote permutations but > it's not really since the adjustments aren't discrete) Yeah, you're autococker material. One of the things to keep in mind with upgrading is that, by and large, there is a LOT of hype in the paintball parts industry. Many so-called performance enhancing parts do very little perceptible improvement over stock parts. There ARE some parts out there that make a big difference, but by and large, the average joe won't notice much. So if something is working for you, there's really no need to replace it until it breaks. The Erricle was a ground-up project, done as much for a showpiece and tribute to my wonderful wife as it was a functional marker. In fact, it's spent more time in the glass case in the living room that it'll EVER see on the field. And while it does shoot very very very well, there's no reason to say it wouldn't do so with stock cocker parts, too. One of the parts that WILL make a difference, in my opinion, is a good regulator. Especially in a cocker. A good regulator will give you a consistent pressure and volume of air, shot to shot, keeping your balls grouped fairly consistently (insofar as the other variables allow), which allows you to get a better feel for your marker. In my opinion, a good regulator will do NOTICEABLY more for your performance than any other upgrade. The other thing you might consider, especially if your 3-way problems continue, is to upgrade your 3way. I love the Besales Hollow Point, but I know there are many Shocktech Bomb fans on this group, too. Both are excellent, as far as I'm concerned. And each one will shorten the throw of your 3-way, which in turn will shorten your trigger pull. (Or is it the other way around?) Bear in mind, I'm no expert. These are just my opinions based on personal experience. :-) Ayar |
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[8] Posted by Jesse Felt 05-18-2005, 11:57 PM |
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Bruce Chang wrote: > > > Why? As far as everyone here is concerned, the 'cocker is a tinkerer's > dream. If you've seen my previous posts, I've been trying to do everything > I can to my Piranha short of buying aftermarket parts. My main goal, as > with every paintball player, is to have an accurate marker that I can play > with on the field and one that I can tinker with when I'm not on the field. > I know there are a lot of people that really like the automag and I saw one > for cheap so I thought I might bid on it but I set out to find an autococker > and my mind was made up. > > What were my other choices? I already had my fill of the spyder clones. > Then there's an automag and the autococker. Tippmann just didn't appeal to > me. I also wanted something quiet and of the markers I've seen on the local > field, the 'cocker sounded pretty good. All the high end markers were out > of my league price-wise: Shockers and whatever else there is. > > -Bruce > > I was just wondering really.. on air powered I was searching for something and stumbled across a thread about why the cocker is such an awesome marker. You know, a sortof "what made you fall in love with it?" type of thing. And by and large the back block is the most prominent aspect about the cocker that sets it apart from the crowd. If I ever decide to go electro ( I suspect that I will have to eventually since it seems like everyone is going that direction) I will probably stick with a cocker... okay, MAYBE a dye matrix |
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[9] Posted by Bruce Chang 05-20-2005, 02:10 PM |
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"Ayar" <autococker@SPAMMEANDDIEinsightbb.com> wrote in message news:PQPie.5591$V2.3680@attbi_s72... > > "Bruce Chang" <bechang@swspambegonebell.net> wrote in message > news:y0Kie.1746$5Z1.1323@newssvr30.news.prodigy.co m... >> >> There are only so many possibilities (I originally wrote permutations >> but it's not really since the adjustments aren't discrete) > > Yeah, you're autococker material. > > One of the things to keep in mind with upgrading is that, by and large, > there is a LOT of hype in the paintball parts industry. Many so-called > performance enhancing parts do very little perceptible improvement over > stock parts. There ARE some parts out there that make a big difference, > but by and large, the average joe won't notice much. So if something is > working for you, there's really no need to replace it until it breaks. > The Erricle was a ground-up project, done as much for a showpiece and > tribute to my wonderful wife as it was a functional marker. In fact, it's > spent more time in the glass case in the living room that it'll EVER see > on the field. And while it does shoot very very very well, there's no > reason to say it wouldn't do so with stock cocker parts, too. > > One of the parts that WILL make a difference, in my opinion, is a good > regulator. Especially in a cocker. A good regulator will give you a > consistent pressure and volume of air, shot to shot, keeping your balls > grouped fairly consistently (insofar as the other variables allow), which > allows you to get a better feel for your marker. In my opinion, a good > regulator will do NOTICEABLY more for your performance than any other > upgrade. > > The other thing you might consider, especially if your 3-way problems > continue, is to upgrade your 3way. I love the Besales Hollow Point, but I > know there are many Shocktech Bomb fans on this group, too. Both are > excellent, as far as I'm concerned. And each one will shorten the throw > of your 3-way, which in turn will shorten your trigger pull. (Or is it > the other way around?) > > Bear in mind, I'm no expert. These are just my opinions based on personal > experience. > > :-) > > Ayar > So the question is how can you filter out what is hype and what will really work? I can see that the 3-way can shorten the trigger pull (as you've mentioned) but what will an aftermarket ram or LPR do that the stock one can't? I see adjustable LPRs. Obviously it adjusts the pressure to the three way but what is the advantage of adjusting it? Efficiency? Reduction in sound? Faster cycling? I played with the 3 way again last night and it's not working well at all. I hope the o-rings will fix the problem, it's just not sealing and leaks air continuously. Enough that it doesn't have enough force to recock. We'll see what happens when I get those o-rings. -Bruce |
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[10] Posted by Jesse Felt 05-20-2005, 04:57 PM |
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There really isn't much point in replacing the ram unless you want to
get away with running lower pressure on your pneus, then a larger ram would be beneficial. This would lighten trigger pull a teensy weensy bit. But as far as I know there is only one ram that is a larger bore than stock. Of course in that case you would need the adjustable lpr. Using an lpr allows you to set the marker up for the optimum efficiency. Basically you turn it all the way down and then turn it up slowly until it will fully cock the marker (thats a skimmed down bare naked version, it's a bit more involved than that) I am going to replace my 3 way eventually with an orracle 3 way. the orracle 3 way is actually just a CT 3way but it has a knob on the front that you can use to adjust the piston without having to mess with the set screws on the backside. Bruce Chang wrote: > > > So the question is how can you filter out what is hype and what will really > work? I can see that the 3-way can shorten the trigger pull (as you've > mentioned) but what will an aftermarket ram or LPR do that the stock one > can't? I see adjustable LPRs. Obviously it adjusts the pressure to the > three way but what is the advantage of adjusting it? Efficiency? Reduction > in sound? Faster cycling? > > I played with the 3 way again last night and it's not working well at all. > I hope the o-rings will fix the problem, it's just not sealing and leaks air > continuously. Enough that it doesn't have enough force to recock. > > We'll see what happens when I get those o-rings. > > -Bruce > > > |
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