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Tyger
[1] Posted by Tyger 08-12-2004, 09:56 PM
 
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"DGDevin" <dgdevin@worldnet.att.invalid> wrote in message
news:1BXRc.192303$OB3.56389@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Well it seems this past weekend a pro player, a member of Aftershock no
> less, was arrested and charged with assault after braining a young player
> with an HPA system at an L.A.-area field.


Events like this have been going on a long time. It's about time to do
something.

We say this every time we see bad behavior. "We need to clean out the
thugs." is said on one board. "It's guys like this that are the bane of
paintball." And yet, nothing heppens. Ever. This will be another incident
swqpt under the rug of paintball. And why? Nobody wants to take on the
"Powers that be". Nobody wants to name the names. And nobody wants to
offend.

So, that in mind, let's take back the power. From what I've been able to
find out through rumor and opinion on the 'boards, the player's nickname is
"Fish", and he plays on Aftershock. ALLEGEDLY, he hit the kid so hard with
the tank the fill nipple cracked his skull bone. He also reportedly hit the
kid FROM BEHIND not in a fight, but in retaliation. If sources are correct,
the victim never saw it coming, and never had an opportunity to defend
himself.

What I can't find in any of this is the victim's information. All I've got
is the victim allegedly plays on "Organised Crime" rookie squad. Allegedly,
"Fish" saw an on-field incident, then at a later time approached the victim
from behind and hit him with a nitrogen tank/regulator.

(Sources include
http://flagpull.com/viewarticle.php?...a4c1ef56bdf16e
and http://www.smacktalkpaintball.com/cg...cgi/read/49339 I
hate to say.)

I've also gathered that it's "Common knowledge" that "Fish" has a very short
temper, and this is not the first time he's taken an argument up with
violence. his defenders say that Fish is a "True friend" who would come
defend you, and that he never starts fights. My question is why he needs to
step in so often? The tournaments I've been to I haven't had the need for a
bodyguard. Are violent fights that common in the PSP?

But I fear that this will be another event that is swept under the rug,
again. Just like the Idema / Dovner fight. Just like Salm ALMOST was.
Just like the "Payola" games from World cup. And why? The people who run
the major events also own the media, the industry, and all that other good
stuff. Players are being sold a product of being "extreme athletes", they
just don't get it yet.

I hope the victim is ok, I haven't seen a single mention of him in the whole
mess. Head trauma is nasty.

-Tyger
--
: "It's amazing what you can find in a salvage yard, 'aye T-Bone?" :
: SPAM BLOCK : to mail me delete the "bleet"! /\ -Razor, Swat Kats :
: TiP #021 : Hobbes Patrol <Captain / Founding Member> # 3 :
\\ Web Dog Radio http://www.webdogradio.us : Turn it up! //
"You're only as old as you think you'll feel tomorrow" -Tyger


 
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Insane Ranter
[2] Posted by Insane Ranter 08-13-2004, 12:31 AM
 
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Sue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
DGDevin
[3] Posted by DGDevin 08-13-2004, 12:35 AM
 
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"Tyger" <tyger@webdogradio.baah.us> wrote in message
news:Z_idnf3XZ4EkjIHcRVn-sw@comcast.com...

> Events like this have been going on a long time. It's about time to do
> something.


Sure, fights and assaults have taken place in paintball generally and the
tourney world in particular for a long time, this isn't the first case of
someone being knocked out with an air tank either. But in this case the
cops were called, and the alleged tank-swinger helped seal his fate by
mouthing off to a cop, if Aftershock keeps this guy on the roster they are
insane, a dog is only allowed one bite, after that it's lawsuit city.

> I've also gathered that it's "Common knowledge" that "Fish" has a very

short
> temper, and this is not the first time he's taken an argument up with
> violence.


That would be a generous assessment of his character from what I've been
told, the guy is a loose cannon and has a history of bad behavior. But he's
hardly alone in that when it comes to tournament paintball, some of the best
known players in the "sport" are known as aggressive and even violent people
who either have a short fuse or who use the threat of violence to intimidate
opponents and referees. But in tournament paintball you can get away with
just about anything so long as you have the right connections, hell, players
like Lasoya can be suspended and even banned from one league and just move
to another, and they still get their pictures on the sponsor's t-shirts and
the covers of paintball magazines. And why not? The "extreme" model that
tournament paintball has adopted and is now marketing has a "bad boys" image
as part of the package. Look at the advertising in every magazine, on the
websites, it's all about being a badass, violence real or implied is part of
the scene. So why wonder that jerks prosper in such a world and punk-ass
behavior is now considered virtually the norm?

> The people who run
> the major events also own the media, the industry, and all that other good
> stuff. Players are being sold a product of being "extreme athletes", they
> just don't get it yet.


Yeah, that's a big part of the problem, the industry protects its own and
sweeps the dirt under the carpet. Only the fact that the criminal justice
system is involved in this case is likely to make a difference, otherwise
this guy would probably be suiting up with 'Shock at their next event.


 
Tyger
[4] Posted by Tyger 08-13-2004, 09:12 PM
 
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Quote
"DGDevin" <dgdevin@worldnet.att.invalid> wrote in message
news:XFWSc.202779$OB3.11506@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> But in tournament paintball you can get away with
> just about anything so long as you have the right connections, hell,

players
> like Lasoya can be suspended and even banned from one league and just move
> to another, and they still get their pictures on the sponsor's t-shirts

and
> the covers of paintball magazines. And why not? The "extreme" model that
> tournament paintball has adopted and is now marketing has a "bad boys"

image
> as part of the package.


Again I ask. Who will have to die? Whos life will have to be lost before
paintball becomes accountbale for thier actions?

I see a lot of players who are not accountable for what they directly do.
They throw tantrums like children, they fight, they deliberatly try to
injure opponents, and all over a game nobody outside the circle notices.
Changes need to be made, but the immaturity of paintball glares through.
Players need to be held to a code of conduct, as they are in other sports.
But that won't happen because we're too busy partying and living the "big
pimpin" life, as it is.

So, I ask again. Who needs to die before paintball becomes accountable? I
hope it never comes to that, but after this tank incident, and reading 3-4
different sides of it, I see that somoene will need to die before
paintballers realise they are not immortal, or above the law, or immune from
accountability.

-Tyger
--
: "It's amazing what you can find in a salvage yard, 'aye T-Bone?" :
: SPAM BLOCK : to mail me delete the "bleet"! /\ -Razor, Swat Kats :
: TiP #021 : Hobbes Patrol <Captain / Founding Member> # 3 :
\\ Web Dog Radio http://www.webdogradio.us : Turn it up! //
"You're only as old as you think you'll feel tomorrow" -Tyger


 
Jeff Goslin
[5] Posted by Jeff Goslin 08-14-2004, 04:24 AM
 
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Quote
"Tyger" <tyger@webdogradio.baah.us> wrote in message
news:VLCdnSjJkqGcxIDcRVn-ug@comcast.com...
> Again I ask. Who will have to die? Whos life will have to be lost before
> paintball becomes accountbale for thier actions?


"My life as a teenage drama queen..."

> Changes need to be made, but the immaturity of paintball glares through.
> Players need to be held to a code of conduct, as they are in other sports.


You're living in a fantasy world. The reality of paintball is that pretty
much the only way these guys know how to play is with little regard for
honor and integrity as it relates to sportsmanship in general. Add to that
annoyance the fact that they are positively reinforced with prizes and
sponsorship money ONLY if they win, and winning at all costs becomes the
mantra. If you don't win, you're a loser, that's the sentiment. Long ago
we lost the notion that simply playing made you a winner. Second place is
the first place loser. I honestly expect nothing more than outright
flagrant cheating from high end pros, the idea being that it's only cheating
if you get caught.

Players are not going to be held to a code of conduct until the money stops
flowing, bottom line. The more they cheat, the more they are rewarded for
their wins. So, what is their incentive to follow this code of conduct
you'd like them to follow?

> So, I ask again. Who needs to die before paintball becomes accountable?

I

Perhaps the answer is "the sponsorship check guy of every paintball
company".

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right



 
Tyger
[6] Posted by Tyger 08-15-2004, 06:42 AM
 
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Quote

"Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:C-ydnVXNteXII4DcRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> "Tyger" <tyger@webdogradio.baah.us> wrote in message
> news:VLCdnSjJkqGcxIDcRVn-ug@comcast.com...
> > Again I ask. Who will have to die? Whos life will have to be lost

before
> > paintball becomes accountbale for thier actions?

>
> "My life as a teenage drama queen..."


No, seriously. Fish took an air tank and pinged this kid in the head with
it. Did he assume that it would bounce and the kid would be ok? Or was
Fish's intent to casue maxumum pain and suffering, or possibly kill the kid?
According to several "eye-witness" accounts, Fish made a VERY hard swing,
enough to be heard (wiht an audible 'ping' noise) for distance.

What would your opinion be if he killed the kid?

What would a politician durring election year think of paintball and it's
players?

Think about it.

-Tyger
--
: "It's amazing what you can find in a salvage yard, 'aye T-Bone?" :
: SPAM BLOCK : to mail me delete the "bleet"! /\ -Razor, Swat Kats :
: TiP #021 : Hobbes Patrol <Captain / Founding Member> # 3 :
\\ Web Dog Radio http://www.webdogradio.us : Turn it up! //
"You're only as old as you think you'll feel tomorrow" -Tyger


 
Billy Goodman
[7] Posted by Billy Goodman 08-15-2004, 01:27 PM
 
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Quote
>What would a politician durring election year think of paintball and it's
>players?
>


Depends on how many votes he thinks he could get..
I'd like to think that something like this can be squarely placed on the
shoulders of the individual who took the action (and no doubt he bears ultimate
responsibility). I'd like to think that the fact that it happened in paintball
is just a detail -- If they had been playing baseball, then it would have been
a baseball bat upside the kid's head... but the truth is, that kind of
behavior wouldn't be tolerated in baseball at any level, and players (although
some might resort to similar actions) know good and well something like that
won't be tolerated. They'd be tossed out of the league and publicly ostracized,
in addition to facing criminal charges. The so-called Pros of paintball have no
reason to think they can't get away with anything. And apparently anything
means anything.
I wonder if this Fish guy tried telling the cops how they couldn't arrest him
because he's sponsored "pro"?



Billy Goodman -
Pukin Dogs
http://www.pukindogspaintball.com

 
DGDevin
[8] Posted by DGDevin 08-15-2004, 01:48 PM
 
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Quote
"Billy Goodman" <blg123@aol.companyslut> wrote in message
news:20040815122726.19313.00003701@mb-m04.aol.com...

>If they had been playing baseball, then it would have been
> a baseball bat upside the kid's head... but the truth is, that kind of
> behavior wouldn't be tolerated in baseball at any level, and players

(although
> some might resort to similar actions) know good and well something like

that
> won't be tolerated. They'd be tossed out of the league and publicly

ostracized,
> in addition to facing criminal charges.


Ditto in hockey, they can punch each other and be back next week, but if
they swing sticks at each other's heads, they're out for the season.

> The so-called Pros of paintball have no
> reason to think they can't get away with anything. And apparently anything
> means anything.


They always have, some of the best-known pro players have the worst
reputations for cheating and fighting and so on. Yet season after season,
they're back for more.

> I wonder if this Fish guy tried telling the cops how they couldn't arrest

him
> because he's sponsored "pro"?


He ran his mouth, that got him into handcuffs, his reputation for immature
and disturbed behavior not only resulted in someone else going to the
hospital, it got him to jail. You want to know the most sickening part?
His team's initial reaction wasn't to dump him, it was just to have him keep
a low profile for awhile until the incident blew over. Incredible.


 
Insane Ranter
[9] Posted by Insane Ranter 08-15-2004, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote

"Tyger" <tyger@webdogradio.baah.us> wrote in message
news:2-mdnRvq0JO9rYLcRVn-pA@comcast.com...
> What would your opinion be if he killed the kid?


Murder 1....have fried Fish sticks in the electric chair

> What would a politician durring election year think of paintball and it's
> players?


Fun exciting game.... current laws and regulations seem to cover it well
enough...


 
Insane Ranter
[10] Posted by Insane Ranter 08-15-2004, 04:19 PM
 
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Quote

"DGDevin" <dgdevin@worldnet.att.invalid> wrote in message
news:htMTc.211359$OB3.11396@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Billy Goodman" <blg123@aol.companyslut> wrote in message
> news:20040815122726.19313.00003701@mb-m04.aol.com...
>
> >If they had been playing baseball, then it would have been
> > a baseball bat upside the kid's head... but the truth is, that kind of
> > behavior wouldn't be tolerated in baseball at any level, and players

> (although
> > some might resort to similar actions) know good and well something like

> that
> > won't be tolerated. They'd be tossed out of the league and publicly

> ostracized,
> > in addition to facing criminal charges.

>
> Ditto in hockey, they can punch each other and be back next week, but if
> they swing sticks at each other's heads, they're out for the season.


And there have been a dew tried for assualts and such as well..


 
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