In article <H62dnTofhrs3xZLcRVn-uA@comcast.com>,
"Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote:

> "Cybershark" <cybershark302@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9Z-dnfxFCKxHu5LcRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
> >
> http://www.actionmarkers.com/amNews/...20letter%20to%
> 20K2.pdf
>
> After reading this, I have to say that I'm not on any side, but simply to
> NOTE that possession is 9/10ths of the law, as the saying goes. It has long
> been paintball lore and legend that Palmer created "Camille", the first
> truly functional semi-automatic paintball gun, and therefore invented the
> process and so on. However, did he patent this invention or process? I
> don't know. Someone can look that up.
>
> If he *DID* patent it, he has a legitimate complaint, of course, but then
> the question becomes "why does he not enforce his patent in a general sense,
> rather than just in this instance?" Many people have said that he has
> chosen not to enforce his patents for a fostering of goodwill and a spirit
> of invention, and that's great, I suppose it's his choice, but it seems kind
> of silly to step in NOW but not when he actually could make some serious
> money. Just my take on it.

Well, that is a little involved. It would probably be a good
argument if he started trying to enforce his own IP rights that he
waived them by not enforcing any sort of restriction and not trying to
patent it. However, that does nothing for the prior art (inventing it
first) that would invalidate the granted patent.

In other words, it is too late for him to get a patent, but never too
late for him to blast the other patent out of the water.

> If he *DIDN'T* patent it, then all we have to go on is a he said/she said
> kind of scenario.

What you are looking for at that point is what is called a
"commercial embodiment." Some clear and convincing evidence of a
prototype. An advertisement. A magazine article. A catalog entry.
Something that can be based in time that shows the invention.

--
Phelps <http://www.donotremove.net>
"Bury me with all my stuff, because you know that it is mine."
-- Master Shake's Suicide Note, "Aqua Teen Hunger Force"

It's so funny to see "intellectuals" chime in.....

If you knew Glenn, you'd know he would not let a letter like that exist in
the public domain unless..............

You'll not see anyone go after him........

"Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:H62dnTofhrs3xZLcRVn-uA@comcast.com...
> "Cybershark" <cybershark302@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9Z-dnfxFCKxHu5LcRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
> >
>
http://www.actionmarkers.com/amNews/...%20to%20K2.pdf
>
> After reading this, I have to say that I'm not on any side, but simply to
> NOTE that possession is 9/10ths of the law, as the saying goes. It has
long
> been paintball lore and legend that Palmer created "Camille", the first
> truly functional semi-automatic paintball gun, and therefore invented the
> process and so on. However, did he patent this invention or process? I
> don't know. Someone can look that up.
>
> If he *DID* patent it, he has a legitimate complaint, of course, but then
> the question becomes "why does he not enforce his patent in a general
sense,
> rather than just in this instance?" Many people have said that he has
> chosen not to enforce his patents for a fostering of goodwill and a spirit
> of invention, and that's great, I suppose it's his choice, but it seems
kind
> of silly to step in NOW but not when he actually could make some serious
> money. Just my take on it.
>
> If he *DIDN'T* patent it, then all we have to go on is a he said/she said
> kind of scenario. While we all take it for granted and as a given that he
> is the inventor of the modern autococker paintball gun, what real proof do
> we have, other than the hearsay and tale-telling of others? Was he truly
> the first? Without a governmental document, his word is as good as the
next
> guy's word. Remember, possession is 9/10ths of the law, so it's said. If
> he doesn't possess the patent, does he have a leg to stand on? He may
CLAIM
> the intellectual property for his own(and frankly, I believe his claim),
but
> if he can't PROVE it, can he really stop WGP from making their claim,
bogus
> or not?
>
> --
> Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
> It's not a god complex when you're always right
>
>
>

It's so amusing to see "morons" chime in...

If you could read a URL, you would note that Palmer did NOT put that into
the public domain, Action Markers did. It's on their website.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right


"ANTiSEEN" <ANTiSEEN@charter.not> wrote in message
news:10i7tmuqqlm1gb0@corp.supernews.com...
> It's so funny to see "intellectuals" chime in.....
>
> If you knew Glenn, you'd know he would not let a letter like that exist in
> the public domain unless..............
>
> You'll not see anyone go after him........
>
> "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:H62dnTofhrs3xZLcRVn-uA@comcast.com...
> > "Cybershark" <cybershark302@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:9Z-dnfxFCKxHu5LcRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
> > >
> >
>
http://www.actionmarkers.com/amNews/...%20to%20K2.pdf
> >
> > After reading this, I have to say that I'm not on any side, but simply
to
> > NOTE that possession is 9/10ths of the law, as the saying goes. It has
> long
> > been paintball lore and legend that Palmer created "Camille", the first
> > truly functional semi-automatic paintball gun, and therefore invented
the
> > process and so on. However, did he patent this invention or process? I
> > don't know. Someone can look that up.
> >
> > If he *DID* patent it, he has a legitimate complaint, of course, but
then
> > the question becomes "why does he not enforce his patent in a general
> sense,
> > rather than just in this instance?" Many people have said that he has
> > chosen not to enforce his patents for a fostering of goodwill and a
spirit
> > of invention, and that's great, I suppose it's his choice, but it seems
> kind
> > of silly to step in NOW but not when he actually could make some serious
> > money. Just my take on it.
> >
> > If he *DIDN'T* patent it, then all we have to go on is a he said/she
said
> > kind of scenario. While we all take it for granted and as a given that
he
> > is the inventor of the modern autococker paintball gun, what real proof
do
> > we have, other than the hearsay and tale-telling of others? Was he
truly
> > the first? Without a governmental document, his word is as good as the
> next
> > guy's word. Remember, possession is 9/10ths of the law, so it's said.
If
> > he doesn't possess the patent, does he have a leg to stand on? He may
> CLAIM
> > the intellectual property for his own(and frankly, I believe his claim),
> but
> > if he can't PROVE it, can he really stop WGP from making their claim,
> bogus
> > or not?
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
> > It's not a god complex when you're always right
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Dude, your dumbass mouth seems to short circuit your brain quite often; if
you were smart enough to look at the Action web page BEFORE you spewed out
ignorant blah blah blah you'd see it was posted with Palmer's permission.

MORON

"Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:c6WdnTkjAtFEF7ncRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> It's so amusing to see "morons" chime in...
>
> If you could read a URL, you would note that Palmer did NOT put that into
> the public domain, Action Markers did. It's on their website.
>
> --
> Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
> It's not a god complex when you're always right
>
>
> "ANTiSEEN" <ANTiSEEN@charter.not> wrote in message
> news:10i7tmuqqlm1gb0@corp.supernews.com...
> > It's so funny to see "intellectuals" chime in.....
> >
> > If you knew Glenn, you'd know he would not let a letter like that exist
in
> > the public domain unless..............
> >
> > You'll not see anyone go after him........
> >
> > "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:H62dnTofhrs3xZLcRVn-uA@comcast.com...
> > > "Cybershark" <cybershark302@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:9Z-dnfxFCKxHu5LcRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.actionmarkers.com/amNews/...%20to%20K2.pdf
> > >
> > > After reading this, I have to say that I'm not on any side, but simply
> to
> > > NOTE that possession is 9/10ths of the law, as the saying goes. It
has
> > long
> > > been paintball lore and legend that Palmer created "Camille", the
first
> > > truly functional semi-automatic paintball gun, and therefore invented
> the
> > > process and so on. However, did he patent this invention or process?
I
> > > don't know. Someone can look that up.
> > >
> > > If he *DID* patent it, he has a legitimate complaint, of course, but
> then
> > > the question becomes "why does he not enforce his patent in a general
> > sense,
> > > rather than just in this instance?" Many people have said that he has
> > > chosen not to enforce his patents for a fostering of goodwill and a
> spirit
> > > of invention, and that's great, I suppose it's his choice, but it
seems
> > kind
> > > of silly to step in NOW but not when he actually could make some
serious
> > > money. Just my take on it.
> > >
> > > If he *DIDN'T* patent it, then all we have to go on is a he said/she
> said
> > > kind of scenario. While we all take it for granted and as a given
that
> he
> > > is the inventor of the modern autococker paintball gun, what real
proof
> do
> > > we have, other than the hearsay and tale-telling of others? Was he
> truly
> > > the first? Without a governmental document, his word is as good as
the
> > next
> > > guy's word. Remember, possession is 9/10ths of the law, so it's said.
> If
> > > he doesn't possess the patent, does he have a leg to stand on? He may
> > CLAIM
> > > the intellectual property for his own(and frankly, I believe his
claim),
> > but
> > > if he can't PROVE it, can he really stop WGP from making their claim,
> > bogus
> > > or not?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
> > > It's not a god complex when you're always right
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"ANTiSEEN" <ANTiSEEN@charter.not> wrote in message
news:10i98p5la3nnp2c@corp.supernews.com...
> Dude, your dumbass mouth seems to short circuit your brain quite often; if
> you were smart enough to look at the Action web page BEFORE you spewed out
> ignorant blah blah blah you'd see it was posted with Palmer's permission.
>
> MORON

******.... go shovel some shit

but insane he is the shit....;-)
"Insane Ranter" <spam@not.me> wrote in message
news:Zm5Vc.1994$UZ4.354@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> "ANTiSEEN" <ANTiSEEN@charter.not> wrote in message
> news:10i98p5la3nnp2c@corp.supernews.com...
> > Dude, your dumbass mouth seems to short circuit your brain quite often;
if
> > you were smart enough to look at the Action web page BEFORE you spewed
out
> > ignorant blah blah blah you'd see it was posted with Palmer's
permission.
> >
> > MORON
>
> ******.... go shovel some shit
>
>

I wasn't talkin' to anyone but that asswipe Gooselininger, Gollybygoshlin,
whatever he calls his pompous and not too bright self.........

Glenn Palmer is the top of the food chain. He made the autococker (on a
Sheridan) because his shoulder hurt, showed it to Bud, then Bud mass
produced it on his "Sniper" which Bud had ripped off from Sheridan. If
anyone cares to look back in history the "Bud Orr Sniper" pump gun was a
cosmetically different Sheridan, but otherwise a complete ripoff. If anyone
has a legal basis to go after someone it's Sheridan vs Bud Orr. The Nel-Spot
was ripped off by the Phantom guy (forgot his name, but I still have a
Phantom), Spyder ripped off the Illustrator and mass produced in China, and
the Angel is a 68 Special with electronic actuation. None of these ideas are
new. The rush to market and the profits associated with the paintball arms
race of the early 90's made patent protection an illogical choice. Do I
spend 2 years trying to protect an idea or do I sell 100,000 paintball guns?
Hummmmmm????? Glenn did the right thing, he let his innovation work to
advance the hobby, not hinder it for finiancial gain or recognition. Hey
Goeselin, have you got any patents? Any contributions besides your Keith
Lango (and not even close to KL's wit) style ng posts to back your infinite
wisdom?

"Cro Bud Orr man whoops the LFG............WHOOPS!"

You self proclaimed "smart" people should brush up on the history of
paintball before chiming in on things you know nothing about.

All the patent crap is just that, legalese time occupying blahhhh........

Anyone that doubts Glenn Palmer is an ignorant idiot.

"Tony Sr." <amargio1@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KunVc.8230$Bt5.921@twister.socal.rr.com...
> but insane he is the shit....;-)
> "Insane Ranter" <spam@not.me> wrote in message
> news:Zm5Vc.1994$UZ4.354@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "ANTiSEEN" <ANTiSEEN@charter.not> wrote in message
> > news:10i98p5la3nnp2c@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Dude, your dumbass mouth seems to short circuit your brain quite
often;
> if
> > > you were smart enough to look at the Action web page BEFORE you spewed
> out
> > > ignorant blah blah blah you'd see it was posted with Palmer's
> permission.
> > >
> > > MORON
> >
> > ******.... go shovel some shit
> >
> >
>
>

"ANTiSEEN" <ANTiSEEN@charter.not> wrote in message
news:10iccu9gu55g60b@corp.supernews.com...
> I wasn't talkin' to anyone but that asswipe Gooselininger, Gollybygoshlin,
> whatever he calls his pompous and not too bright self.........

Normally, I try not to pummel on obvious retards, but in your case, I'll
make an exception, mainly because, well, you're begging to be bitchslapped.
I'll gladly oblige.

> Glenn Palmer is the top of the food chain. He made the autococker (on a
[snip history lesson]

Sounds about right, from what I understand.

> new. The rush to market and the profits associated with the paintball arms
> race of the early 90's made patent protection an illogical choice. Do I
> spend 2 years trying to protect an idea or do I sell 100,000 paintball
guns?

Well, from what I understand, Palmer has always been about the custom gun
over the mass produced gun, meaning that it is highly unlikely that he sold
100K paintball guns in 2 years. However, that is completely irrelevant.

> Hummmmmm????? Glenn did the right thing, he let his innovation work to
> advance the hobby, not hinder it for finiancial gain or recognition. Hey

It's his choice, to be sure. However, you should know that free exchange of
ideas actually works to hinder development, not that you could comprehend
why this would be the case. I won't even BEGIN to bother trying to explain
it to you, because, quite frankly, you're obviously too stupid to understand
the complexities involved.

> Goeselin, have you got any patents? Any contributions besides your Keith
> Lango (and not even close to KL's wit) style ng posts to back your
infinite
> wisdom?

Keith Lango??? You're referring to a guy who posted all of about 12 times
to rec.sport.paintball almost a decade ago? Who *are* you? What planet are
you from?

Most directly, my having or not having patents is likewise irrelevant. I
can still speak to them from an intelligent perspective... quite unlike you.

> You self proclaimed "smart" people should brush up on the history of
> paintball before chiming in on things you know nothing about.

You should much more carefully read the posts that are made before you go
all retard-apeshit on us.

> All the patent crap is just that, legalese time occupying blahhhh........

In other words, you totally didn't grasp the concepts that we were
discussing, and this post is just one big session of Glenn Palmer
dicksucking... that about sum it up?

> Anyone that doubts Glenn Palmer is an ignorant idiot.

Here's where I'm going to bend you over a table and assram you dry.

I specifically stated in my original post that I believed Palmer to be the
originator of the system in question, but the discussion, BY MY OWN HAND,
diverted into a direction of legal matters as they pertain to patents and
such. If Palmer didn't patent his stuff, and doesn't have documentation to
prove his invention, there is little for a court to do except decide on a
"he said/she said" scenario, which would probably go in Palmer's favor. All
of this was stated at the very beginning of the thread. In other words,
nobody doubts Palmer was the originator of the idea.

However, you absolute SIMPERING SLACKJAWED *RETARD*, even by Palmer's own
words, from the following web page on Palmer's own website:
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/FAQ/miscfaq.htm#misc2
Palmer *ADMITS* that Bud Orr did his own thing to take the idea and develop
it in tandem to what Palmer was doing. In other words, aside from the idea
itself, Bud Orr completely designed his own system for doing the same thing,
which happened, not entirely uncoincidentally, to be very similar to what
Palmer ended up making, for reasons that have already been gone into.

I want you to be VERY CLEAR about this. That website is PALMER'S OWN
WEBSITE. They are written as if *he* said the words.
---quote---
I didn't design or develop the AutoCocker. I developed the use of pneumatic
automation for paintguns by putting automation to work on my own equipment.
On one of my early semis, I used a sliding trigger and mounted the
automation components in a group in front of the trigger guard . It was a
double barrel, so the reg. was mounted under one barrel and the ram under
the other, with the 4-way valve in the center and attached to the front of a
slide-trigger frame. Bud Orr was shown the gun and he recognized that my
system could be applied to the front of a Sniper thus making it
Auto-Cocking. He did his own thing to make it work on his gun.
---quote---

Do you feel stupid now? Or shall I bitchslap you some more?

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right