i lurk here, but i gotta comment on this:

when i was playing tourney ball back in 89-92, i was shooting my carter
comp (still one of them), and Dave was working in Earon's shop, i
remember three distinct guns being made. dave used to run around in his
silver tuxedo all the time and shoot his california style carter comp
for awhile, then he posed on the cover of APG with a silver long barrel
'carterized' tippman 68 special that everyone on the planet wanted, but
they only made one of. he used that for about a few months, then in mid
1991 when the all americans, ironmen and constant pursuit were in the
finals of the world cup(or whatever it was called, fuzzy memory. Hint: i
was on one of those teams. bigger hint: dave was playing with constant
pursuit for that year, and we were teammates.) in new york, the AA's
showed up with tricked out vm-68's, ironmen with first-gen autocockers,
and constant pursit with mostly pumps and a few f-1 illustrators.

where am i going with this? one month after seeing how well the vm-68's
worked, i'm down at Earons old shop, and there he is building the one in
the auction!! got to shoot it in the back of the shop. and it worked
like a well tuned vm-68 should work. dave used it for promo/rec game tpe
of stuff for a few months only. he went ironmen next year, and that was
that. so, just to let you know, that is probably the ONLY vm-68 that
earon carter has ever built, let alone even worked on. that's pretty
damn rare. to put it in perspective, he did a couple of tippmanns, quite
a few cockers, and even started making his own stainless barrels for
other guns for about a year.( i have an original first-run 8" carter
cocker barrel) none of this is CNC, it was all done by hand until dave
started up DYE several years later.

i got a bunch of history tourney tales if anyone wants. lots of weird
prototype stuff from the factories that i shot back then.


happy holidays!
--joel


In article <vuogu0bpe9h6e2@corp.supernews.com>,
"Daniel Martin" <dwmartin@idirect.com> wrote:

> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tegory=16 048
>
>
> And
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tegory=16 048
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>

--
remove nospam to reach me.

Err ok my mistake reading there. In my post christmas haze I thought he
said Dan when infact he said Dave.... Makes a big difference. Anyways, I
think Joel could shed a lot more light on the gun than I could. Thanks for
the post Joel.
Todd
www.TeamSnapShot.com
"Dirty" <n"NOSPAM"todd@carolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:wp_Gb.180624$dl.7980670@twister.southeast.rr. com...
> Well if he is refering to Dan Bonedrake and its a one of a kind and can
> prove it I don't see what the big deal is. If it truly is what he says it
> is part of paintball history although I dont see spending 2000 bucks on
> it......
> Todd
> www.TeamSnapShot.com
> "Daniel Martin" <dwmartin@idirect.com> wrote in message
> news:vuogu0bpe9h6e2@corp.supernews.com...
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tegory=16 048
> >
> >
> > And
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tegory=16 048
> >
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
>
>

"joel" <joel_kaufman@nospamcsumb.edu> wrote in message
news:joel_kaufman-3BDF1A.10224126122003@netnews.attbi.com...
> i lurk here, but i gotta comment on this:
> i got a bunch of history tourney tales if anyone wants. lots of weird
> prototype stuff from the factories that i shot back then.
>
>
> happy holidays!
> --joel
>


OOooooh! Tell us! Tell us!

most of the stuff i talk about comes from floating in the northern
california paintball scene and doing national tourneys back then. i just
came back to playing paintball this year after not firing a shot in 7
years. so here's some odd stuff to whet your whistle:

when swarm won the nashville masters in 1990, the did it with automags,
but the oddball was the prototype barrels that tom kaye had floating
about. the next year, he hadn't released the minimag yet, but was just
starting to play around with this weird 'powerfeed' concept. as part of
this, he had a new crown point barrel that one of the guys on the team
wound up shooting as a 'beta' test. it was a standard crownpoint barrel,
except that there was NO protective ring at the top. literally, it
looked like you could stick someone with it like a bayonet with 4
prongs. steve, who got the barrel to test, literally jammed it into a
tree trunk, and the gun almost stayed on it's own. rang louder than you
could believe. only 5-20 of these barrels were ever made.

another:
later in 1991, as semi's were taking over, i was playing with a local
team called phantom force. sponsored by... CCI phantom. back then, a
sponsorship basically meant you got a banner and a discount. however, we
we're playing at the bay city open, when mike casady (owner of CCI)
shows up with a phantom that looks a little funny. get this: pneumatic
sleeves and orings plus an extra spring INSIDE the body of a phantom.
there was a TINY air switch just behind the trigger to activate it. yep.
a one of a kind factory semi-auto phantom. kept blowing orings and
stopped working after a couple hundered shots. i don't remember if there
was a regulator or not on it, but i don't think there was.

another:
i was working at a local paintball shop (paintball checkpoint--out of
business by very early 1995) doing some machining. we got in a gun that
a distributor sold us called the phoenix. i've only seen and fired that
one gun. they must be ridiculously rare if anyone can find one. quiet,
accurate, and check this out: rotary breech. yep. in an attempt to solve
the double-feeding problem, and blowback issues, there was i rotary disk
that had a hole bored in the edge deep enough for a single ball to drop.
the 'bucket' would rotate vertically, let a ball drop in, then rotate
horizontally, closing off the feed tube, and firing. neat system, rarely
chopped balls, but must have been a nightmare to maintain with all the
extra moving parts and seals. saw the one, fired it in the shop a few
times, and never heard/saw of it again after that.


enough for now?
--joel


In article <Df1Hb.670105$Fm2.581833@attbi_s04>,
"ayar-15" <autococker@insightbbNOSPAM.com> wrote:

> "joel" <joel_kaufman@nospamcsumb.edu> wrote in message
> news:joel_kaufman-3BDF1A.10224126122003@netnews.attbi.com...
> > i lurk here, but i gotta comment on this:
> > i got a bunch of history tourney tales if anyone wants. lots of weird
> > prototype stuff from the factories that i shot back then.
> >
> >
> > happy holidays!
> > --joel
> >
>
>
> OOooooh! Tell us! Tell us!
>
>

--
remove nospam to reach me.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tegory=16 048


And
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tegory=16 048


Dan

might want to write a book!
very good stuff, Not really explained in the thread but Dave "youngblood" is
DYE
One time player and now the force behind DYE and the Ironmen.
The Guns where both featured in APG when it was a real Magazine, along with
the Double barreled Chrome Minimag remember that one!
The .45 Stock Gun was very expensive back then, and the Chrome VM and later
Autococker that youngblood was using inspired me to make my own Chrome
Automag.
Rowdy the guy selling on Ebay was a Canadian that played forthe All
Americans. At one time the only Americans where the Gardener brothers and
2E, the rest where not from the US

"joel" <joel_kaufman@nospamcsumb.edu> wrote in message
news:joel_kaufman-65CD6D.16404626122003@netnews.attbi.com...
> most of the stuff i talk about comes from floating in the northern
> california paintball scene and doing national tourneys back then. i just
> came back to playing paintball this year after not firing a shot in 7
> years. so here's some odd stuff to whet your whistle:
>
> when swarm won the nashville masters in 1990, the did it with automags,
> but the oddball was the prototype barrels that tom kaye had floating
> about. the next year, he hadn't released the minimag yet, but was just
> starting to play around with this weird 'powerfeed' concept. as part of
> this, he had a new crown point barrel that one of the guys on the team
> wound up shooting as a 'beta' test. it was a standard crownpoint barrel,
> except that there was NO protective ring at the top. literally, it
> looked like you could stick someone with it like a bayonet with 4
> prongs. steve, who got the barrel to test, literally jammed it into a
> tree trunk, and the gun almost stayed on it's own. rang louder than you
> could believe. only 5-20 of these barrels were ever made.
>
> another:
> later in 1991, as semi's were taking over, i was playing with a local
> team called phantom force. sponsored by... CCI phantom. back then, a
> sponsorship basically meant you got a banner and a discount. however, we
> we're playing at the bay city open, when mike casady (owner of CCI)
> shows up with a phantom that looks a little funny. get this: pneumatic
> sleeves and orings plus an extra spring INSIDE the body of a phantom.
> there was a TINY air switch just behind the trigger to activate it. yep.
> a one of a kind factory semi-auto phantom. kept blowing orings and
> stopped working after a couple hundered shots. i don't remember if there
> was a regulator or not on it, but i don't think there was.
>
> another:
> i was working at a local paintball shop (paintball checkpoint--out of
> business by very early 1995) doing some machining. we got in a gun that
> a distributor sold us called the phoenix. i've only seen and fired that
> one gun. they must be ridiculously rare if anyone can find one. quiet,
> accurate, and check this out: rotary breech. yep. in an attempt to solve
> the double-feeding problem, and blowback issues, there was i rotary disk
> that had a hole bored in the edge deep enough for a single ball to drop.
> the 'bucket' would rotate vertically, let a ball drop in, then rotate
> horizontally, closing off the feed tube, and firing. neat system, rarely
> chopped balls, but must have been a nightmare to maintain with all the
> extra moving parts and seals. saw the one, fired it in the shop a few
> times, and never heard/saw of it again after that.
>
>
> enough for now?
> --joel
>
>
> In article <Df1Hb.670105$Fm2.581833@attbi_s04>,
> "ayar-15" <autococker@insightbbNOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
> > "joel" <joel_kaufman@nospamcsumb.edu> wrote in message
> > news:joel_kaufman-3BDF1A.10224126122003@netnews.attbi.com...
> > > i lurk here, but i gotta comment on this:
> > > i got a bunch of history tourney tales if anyone wants. lots of weird
> > > prototype stuff from the factories that i shot back then.
> > >
> > >
> > > happy holidays!
> > > --joel
> > >
> >
> >
> > OOooooh! Tell us! Tell us!
> >
> >
>
> --
> remove nospam to reach me.

correct! one minor change, dave is behind the socal ironmen. bob long's
ironmen are the 'originals'and the group i'm talking about. since i live
near bob and his shop, i'd pop in now and then and hear stuff. the split
ofsocal/norcal ironmen was after my time. anyone care to fill in the
blanks?

also, rowdy playing for AA explains a lot. since dave tricked the VM out
after inspecting what the gardeners had done to make thiers rock, it's
possible they wound up with it to fix or...?

reminds me of another story...
i was playing at a tourney in san diego where there were a bunch of
vendors, including palmer, lapco, etc. glen palmer took a brand new
stubby stroker with vertical ASA and went to gerry(can't remember his
last name) of a local shop in norcal called 'foxhunters'. handed it to
him and said thanks. i asked glen what was up and he said that gerry
took a hurricane rifle, adapted the pneumatics inside of a pistol grip,
and showed glen. he created the first pistol-style palmer gun! way
classy to give the guy a $500 gun as a thank you. by the way, all the 2
piece barrels that became popular in the last 5 years? colin thompson at
lapco was showing his experimental 'interchangeable thread on muzzle
brreaks' at that same show...

--j

In article <0S7Hb.76124$JW3.48902@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
"P8ntball" <p8ntball@twcny.rr.com> wrote:

> might want to write a book!
> very good stuff, Not really explained in the thread but Dave "youngblood" is
> DYE
> One time player and now the force behind DYE and the Ironmen.
> The Guns where both featured in APG when it was a real Magazine, along with
> the Double barreled Chrome Minimag remember that one!
> The .45 Stock Gun was very expensive back then, and the Chrome VM and later
> Autococker that youngblood was using inspired me to make my own Chrome
> Automag.
> Rowdy the guy selling on Ebay was a Canadian that played forthe All
> Americans. At one time the only Americans where the Gardener brothers and
> 2E, the rest where not from the US
>
> "joel" <joel_kaufman@nospamcsumb.edu> wrote in message
> news:joel_kaufman-65CD6D.16404626122003@netnews.attbi.com...
> > most of the stuff i talk about comes from floating in the northern
> > california paintball scene and doing national tourneys back then. i just
> > came back to playing paintball this year after not firing a shot in 7
> > years. so here's some odd stuff to whet your whistle:
> >
> > when swarm won the nashville masters in 1990, the did it with automags,
> > but the oddball was the prototype barrels that tom kaye had floating
> > about. the next year, he hadn't released the minimag yet, but was just
> > starting to play around with this weird 'powerfeed' concept. as part of
> > this, he had a new crown point barrel that one of the guys on the team
> > wound up shooting as a 'beta' test. it was a standard crownpoint barrel,
> > except that there was NO protective ring at the top. literally, it
> > looked like you could stick someone with it like a bayonet with 4
> > prongs. steve, who got the barrel to test, literally jammed it into a
> > tree trunk, and the gun almost stayed on it's own. rang louder than you
> > could believe. only 5-20 of these barrels were ever made.
> >
> > another:
> > later in 1991, as semi's were taking over, i was playing with a local
> > team called phantom force. sponsored by... CCI phantom. back then, a
> > sponsorship basically meant you got a banner and a discount. however, we
> > we're playing at the bay city open, when mike casady (owner of CCI)
> > shows up with a phantom that looks a little funny. get this: pneumatic
> > sleeves and orings plus an extra spring INSIDE the body of a phantom.
> > there was a TINY air switch just behind the trigger to activate it. yep.
> > a one of a kind factory semi-auto phantom. kept blowing orings and
> > stopped working after a couple hundered shots. i don't remember if there
> > was a regulator or not on it, but i don't think there was.
> >
> > another:
> > i was working at a local paintball shop (paintball checkpoint--out of
> > business by very early 1995) doing some machining. we got in a gun that
> > a distributor sold us called the phoenix. i've only seen and fired that
> > one gun. they must be ridiculously rare if anyone can find one. quiet,
> > accurate, and check this out: rotary breech. yep. in an attempt to solve
> > the double-feeding problem, and blowback issues, there was i rotary disk
> > that had a hole bored in the edge deep enough for a single ball to drop.
> > the 'bucket' would rotate vertically, let a ball drop in, then rotate
> > horizontally, closing off the feed tube, and firing. neat system, rarely
> > chopped balls, but must have been a nightmare to maintain with all the
> > extra moving parts and seals. saw the one, fired it in the shop a few
> > times, and never heard/saw of it again after that.
> >
> >
> > enough for now?
> > --joel
> >
> >
> > In article <Df1Hb.670105$Fm2.581833@attbi_s04>,
> > "ayar-15" <autococker@insightbbNOSPAM.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "joel" <joel_kaufman@nospamcsumb.edu> wrote in message
> > > news:joel_kaufman-3BDF1A.10224126122003@netnews.attbi.com...
> > > > i lurk here, but i gotta comment on this:
> > > > i got a bunch of history tourney tales if anyone wants. lots of weird
> > > > prototype stuff from the factories that i shot back then.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > happy holidays!
> > > > --joel
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > OOooooh! Tell us! Tell us!
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > remove nospam to reach me.
>
>

--
remove nospam to reach me.

Wow! I'm not into the tournament scene at all. But you got great stories.
Keep em coming!

--
"Don't be misled, bad company corrupts good character."
www.LCTPaintball.com



"joel" <joel_kaufman@nospamcsumb.edu> wrote in message
news:joel_kaufman-AD28A2.21441426122003@netnews.attbi.com...
> correct! one minor change, dave is behind the socal ironmen. bob long's
> ironmen are the 'originals'and the group i'm talking about. since i live
> near bob and his shop, i'd pop in now and then and hear stuff. the split
> ofsocal/norcal ironmen was after my time. anyone care to fill in the
> blanks?
>
> also, rowdy playing for AA explains a lot. since dave tricked the VM out
> after inspecting what the gardeners had done to make thiers rock, it's
> possible they wound up with it to fix or...?
>
> reminds me of another story...
> i was playing at a tourney in san diego where there were a bunch of
> vendors, including palmer, lapco, etc. glen palmer took a brand new
> stubby stroker with vertical ASA and went to gerry(can't remember his
> last name) of a local shop in norcal called 'foxhunters'. handed it to
> him and said thanks. i asked glen what was up and he said that gerry
> took a hurricane rifle, adapted the pneumatics inside of a pistol grip,
> and showed glen. he created the first pistol-style palmer gun! way
> classy to give the guy a $500 gun as a thank you. by the way, all the 2
> piece barrels that became popular in the last 5 years? colin thompson at
> lapco was showing his experimental 'interchangeable thread on muzzle
> brreaks' at that same show...
>
> --j
>
> In article <0S7Hb.76124$JW3.48902@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
> "P8ntball" <p8ntball@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > might want to write a book!
> > very good stuff, Not really explained in the thread but Dave
"youngblood" is
> > DYE
> > One time player and now the force behind DYE and the Ironmen.
> > The Guns where both featured in APG when it was a real Magazine, along
with
> > the Double barreled Chrome Minimag remember that one!
> > The .45 Stock Gun was very expensive back then, and the Chrome VM and
later
> > Autococker that youngblood was using inspired me to make my own Chrome
> > Automag.
> > Rowdy the guy selling on Ebay was a Canadian that played forthe All
> > Americans. At one time the only Americans where the Gardener brothers
and
> > 2E, the rest where not from the US
> >
> > "joel" <joel_kaufman@nospamcsumb.edu> wrote in message
> > news:joel_kaufman-65CD6D.16404626122003@netnews.attbi.com...
> > > most of the stuff i talk about comes from floating in the northern
> > > california paintball scene and doing national tourneys back then. i
just
> > > came back to playing paintball this year after not firing a shot in 7
> > > years. so here's some odd stuff to whet your whistle:
> > >
> > > when swarm won the nashville masters in 1990, the did it with
automags,
> > > but the oddball was the prototype barrels that tom kaye had floating
> > > about. the next year, he hadn't released the minimag yet, but was just
> > > starting to play around with this weird 'powerfeed' concept. as part
of
> > > this, he had a new crown point barrel that one of the guys on the team
> > > wound up shooting as a 'beta' test. it was a standard crownpoint
barrel,
> > > except that there was NO protective ring at the top. literally, it
> > > looked like you could stick someone with it like a bayonet with 4
> > > prongs. steve, who got the barrel to test, literally jammed it into a
> > > tree trunk, and the gun almost stayed on it's own. rang louder than
you
> > > could believe. only 5-20 of these barrels were ever made.
> > >
> > > another:
> > > later in 1991, as semi's were taking over, i was playing with a local
> > > team called phantom force. sponsored by... CCI phantom. back then, a
> > > sponsorship basically meant you got a banner and a discount. however,
we
> > > we're playing at the bay city open, when mike casady (owner of CCI)
> > > shows up with a phantom that looks a little funny. get this: pneumatic
> > > sleeves and orings plus an extra spring INSIDE the body of a phantom.
> > > there was a TINY air switch just behind the trigger to activate it.
yep.
> > > a one of a kind factory semi-auto phantom. kept blowing orings and
> > > stopped working after a couple hundered shots. i don't remember if
there
> > > was a regulator or not on it, but i don't think there was.
> > >
> > > another:
> > > i was working at a local paintball shop (paintball checkpoint--out of
> > > business by very early 1995) doing some machining. we got in a gun
that
> > > a distributor sold us called the phoenix. i've only seen and fired
that
> > > one gun. they must be ridiculously rare if anyone can find one. quiet,
> > > accurate, and check this out: rotary breech. yep. in an attempt to
solve
> > > the double-feeding problem, and blowback issues, there was i rotary
disk
> > > that had a hole bored in the edge deep enough for a single ball to
drop.
> > > the 'bucket' would rotate vertically, let a ball drop in, then rotate
> > > horizontally, closing off the feed tube, and firing. neat system,
rarely
> > > chopped balls, but must have been a nightmare to maintain with all the
> > > extra moving parts and seals. saw the one, fired it in the shop a few
> > > times, and never heard/saw of it again after that.
> > >
> > >
> > > enough for now?
> > > --joel
> > >
> > >
> > > In article <Df1Hb.670105$Fm2.581833@attbi_s04>,
> > > "ayar-15" <autococker@insightbbNOSPAM.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "joel" <joel_kaufman@nospamcsumb.edu> wrote in message
> > > > news:joel_kaufman-3BDF1A.10224126122003@netnews.attbi.com...
> > > > > i lurk here, but i gotta comment on this:
> > > > > i got a bunch of history tourney tales if anyone wants. lots of
weird
> > > > > prototype stuff from the factories that i shot back then.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > happy holidays!
> > > > > --joel
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OOooooh! Tell us! Tell us!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > remove nospam to reach me.
> >
> >
>
> --
> remove nospam to reach me.