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Paintball Forums > General > Just Paintball > Paintball Discussion > Re: Smart Parts? Not So Smart to me....

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Jeff Goslin
[1] Posted by Jeff Goslin 07-24-2003, 05:34 PM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
"Gush" <jgush99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36cef160.0307240343.b60f15d@posting.google.co m...
> one has posted this little nugget yet. It seems our good buddies at
> Smart Parts has finally decided to open "Pandora's Box" as it were,
> and is suing Indian Creek Designs, citing patent infringement. What


I actually didn't know who had the patent on that, and didn't realize it was
so broad in scope, but it was bound to happen sooner or later.

> So what does this mean for us? Well, SP is going after the smallest
> fish first, in Indian Creek, so they can set the precedent
> there,collect past royalties and liscensing, then go after the big
> boys like National Paintball, Tippmann, Kingman, WGP, WDP,etc., etc.,
> and blackmail the whole industry! Why would SP do such a thing? Aside


That's easy. To corner the market. Smart business practice, pure and
simple. Eliminate your competition. Sounds like they are trying to make
the market in electros their own. To me, while I agree that it will
probably do more harm than good in the short run to the paintball industry,
the simple fact of the matter is that paintball as a sport will live on,
regardless of a monopoly on electros by one company.

> the most visible, public face of our sport. If SP's lawsuit comes to
> fruition, most of the non-SP sponsored teams may have a tough road
> ahead of them, as the companies who sponsor these teams may simply not
> exist after SP has their way with them. IMHO, this move could castrate
> the NPPL, PSP, Xball and any other pro league, and there goes
> paintball's marketable commodity.


Of all the companies listed above, the ONLY *major* distributor that will be
affected in a dramatic fashion would be WDP, makers of the Angel. Why?
Because the Angel is their only marker(of note, at least, I'm not sure if
they even have others). The other companies, Tippmann, Kingman, WGP,
etcetc, all had standard pneumatic markers before any inclusion of an
electro-pnuematic line.

Make no mistake, in the short term, the monopoly on electro-pneumatics would
lead to a devastation of the sport's existing teams, in terms of
sponsorships, at least. However, I think you will find that once everything
shakes out, many of the teams relying on technology for their wins will
return to more basic roots, and relearn to shoot their cockers as fast as
their electros. Believe me, it's easy to get a cocker timed so that one can
deliver as devastating a level of firepower as an electro.

Think about this in another way: would a team that wanted to win paintball
championships want to rely on the SHOCKER to do it? The shocker is, from
all accounts, a horrific paintball marker to use in tournament play. It's a
gas hog, it's heavy, it's unwielding, do you honestly think that people
would switch to Shockers just to play with an electro in a tournament? Hell
no. Given my choice, give me a cut down cocker or mag over a shocker any
day of the week, and twice on sundays.

> So whadda we do? Well, an easy answer would be to simply boycott SP,


When was the last time you saw a shocker on the field?

> but maybe a better route would be the letter writing/ email campaign.


That would make them forego millions in royalties and penalties, yeah, ok...

> Just thought you all should be aware of this, not trying to troll. I
> know some members of r.s.p would be just happy to see electro's
> disappear (nudge nudge Jeff). I guess we'll just have to see what
> happens...


To be perfectly honest, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. While I
happen to think that stock class is the way of skill, most people in the
paintball world don't have the skill to run with the big boys(or small guns,
as the case may be). All that said, electros are the front line in
paintball technology at the moment, regardless of my opinion of the skill
required to wield one.

In the end, I'd imagine that any lawsuit brought forth would be settled out
of court for a fee to use the patented technology, for every electro sold.
Imagine, Smart Parts doesn't even have to continue to make the shocker,
which is not selling very well anyways, and they get to dip into the huge
electro market anyways. Five bucks a gun, or something like that, 20 bucks,
whatever. How many of the newer guns sold are electropneumatic or sear
trippers? A good portion of them, I would say. Imagine getting your grubby
mitts on those dollars, eh? Smart Parts is probably NOT trying to shut down
everyone else, but rather take a piece of everyone else's pie. Anyone who
refuses, ok, we'll take over your company. But we don't really want your
company, so we'll take it over, and sell your marker division to someone
who's in bed with us, and they can deal with the headaches of manufacturing,
while we reaps the profits. It's simple, really.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD
It's not a god complex when you're always right
http://www.goslin.info




 
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SCM987
[2] Posted by SCM987 07-24-2003, 08:52 PM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
<< Believe me, it's easy to get a cocker timed so that one can deliver as
devastating a level of firepower as an electro.>>

A cocker can't be shoot anywhere near what an electro can. Very few people can
shoot a cocker 8 a sec. Anyone can shoot an electro 8 a sec. Even the e-blade
cocker is slow compared to open bolt electros.

<< While I happen to think that stock class is the way of skill,>>

Stock class requires a lot less skill to play. It is much easier to advance up
the field and to do everything else.


 
Jeff Goslin
[3] Posted by Jeff Goslin 07-24-2003, 10:13 PM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
"SCM987" <scm987@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030724195229.00793.00000433@mb-m25.aol.com...
> << Believe me, it's easy to get a cocker timed so that one can deliver as
> devastating a level of firepower as an electro.>>
>
> A cocker can't be shoot anywhere near what an electro can. Very few

people can
> shoot a cocker 8 a sec. Anyone can shoot an electro 8 a sec. Even the

e-blade
> cocker is slow compared to open bolt electros.


Well, lemme tellya, I can go as fast on an electro as I can on my cocker,
and vice versa.

> << While I happen to think that stock class is the way of skill,>>
>
> Stock class requires a lot less skill to play. It is much easier to

advance up
> the field and to do everything else.


*shakes head*
No comment.

(You can do better than that, Scummy! Come on, an obvious attempt at
trolling, I'm used to so much more from you!)

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD
It's not a god complex when you're always right
http://www.goslin.info




 
Dennis
[4] Posted by Dennis 07-24-2003, 10:33 PM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
><< While I happen to think that stock class is the way of skill,>>
>
>Stock class requires a lot less skill to play. It is much easier to advance
>up
>the field and to do everything else.
>
>


You're a tool. You should try playing against some good stockers (with like
equipment) and see what you think then.

Dennis

"I know we're where we're supposed to be, but I don't know where we're supposed
to be is."





 
SCM987
[5] Posted by SCM987 07-24-2003, 11:17 PM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
<<Well, lemme tellya, I can go as fast on an electro as I can on my cocker,
and vice versa.>>

Then you are slow as shit.
 
SCM987
[6] Posted by SCM987 07-24-2003, 11:20 PM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
<<You're a tool. You should try playing against some good stockers (with like
equipment) and see what you think then.>>

When I started playing, I played pump. Semi was fairly new. I have also
played in pump games and I played with a stock class against electros.

Stock class and pump is slower and much easier. It isn't hard to advance up
the field.




 
Gush
[7] Posted by Gush 07-24-2003, 11:52 PM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
"Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<vMucndqiG4hU372iU-KYvg@comcast.com>...

<snip>

> > and blackmail the whole industry! Why would SP do such a thing? Aside

>
> That's easy. To corner the market. Smart business practice, pure and
> simple. Eliminate your competition. Sounds like they are trying to make
> the market in electros their own. To me, while I agree that it will
> probably do more harm than good in the short run to the paintball industry,
> the simple fact of the matter is that paintball as a sport will live on,
> regardless of a monopoly on electros by one company.


I don't know if I would really call it a smart business practice.
True, short term gains would be huge, but the backlash from this
lawsuit could be harmful later, through lost sales for Smart Parts. I
realize the sport will live on, but it seems like Smart Parts is doing
it just cause they can, not because they should. I remember reading a
post about Tippmann not putting a patent on the pin valve, so it could
take a footing as an industry standard. Imagine the profits they would
reap if they decided to cash in on a patent now!

> > the most visible, public face of our sport. If SP's lawsuit comes to
> > fruition, most of the non-SP sponsored teams may have a tough road
> > ahead of them, as the companies who sponsor these teams may simply not
> > exist after SP has their way with them. IMHO, this move could castrate
> > the NPPL, PSP, Xball and any other pro league, and there goes
> > paintball's marketable commodity.

>
> Of all the companies listed above, the ONLY *major* distributor that will be
> affected in a dramatic fashion would be WDP, makers of the Angel. Why?
> Because the Angel is their only marker(of note, at least, I'm not sure if
> they even have others). The other companies, Tippmann, Kingman, WGP,
> etcetc, all had standard pneumatic markers before any inclusion of an
> electro-pnuematic line.
>
> Make no mistake, in the short term, the monopoly on electro-pneumatics would
> lead to a devastation of the sport's existing teams, in terms of
> sponsorships, at least. However, I think you will find that once everything
> shakes out, many of the teams relying on technology for their wins will
> return to more basic roots, and relearn to shoot their cockers as fast as
> their electros. Believe me, it's easy to get a cocker timed so that one can
> deliver as devastating a level of firepower as an electro.


I hear you there. In fact, I personally don't even own an electro. I
shoot cockers and VSC Phantoms. So why should I care? I guess it's the
principle of the thing. I can't really blame SP for wanting a bigger
piece of the pie, but why not try and make a bigger pie! By
eliminating all their competition, I think that they have made the pie
a lot smaller...I dunno. IMHO, I think SP should try and dominate the
market place by putting out a superior product, instead of chopping
the legs out from their competition.

> Think about this in another way: would a team that wanted to win paintball
> championships want to rely on the SHOCKER to do it? The shocker is, from
> all accounts, a horrific paintball marker to use in tournament play. It's a
> gas hog, it's heavy, it's unwielding, do you honestly think that people
> would switch to Shockers just to play with an electro in a tournament? Hell
> no. Given my choice, give me a cut down cocker or mag over a shocker any
> day of the week, and twice on sundays.
>
> > So whadda we do? Well, an easy answer would be to simply boycott SP,

>
> When was the last time you saw a shocker on the field?
>
> > but maybe a better route would be the letter writing/ email campaign.

>
> That would make them forego millions in royalties and penalties, yeah, ok...
>
> > Just thought you all should be aware of this, not trying to troll. I
> > know some members of r.s.p would be just happy to see electro's
> > disappear (nudge nudge Jeff). I guess we'll just have to see what
> > happens...

>
> To be perfectly honest, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. While I
> happen to think that stock class is the way of skill, most people in the
> paintball world don't have the skill to run with the big boys(or small guns,
> as the case may be). All that said, electros are the front line in
> paintball technology at the moment, regardless of my opinion of the skill
> required to wield one.
>
> In the end, I'd imagine that any lawsuit brought forth would be settled out
> of court for a fee to use the patented technology, for every electro sold.
> Imagine, Smart Parts doesn't even have to continue to make the shocker,
> which is not selling very well anyways, and they get to dip into the huge
> electro market anyways. Five bucks a gun, or something like that, 20 bucks,
> whatever. How many of the newer guns sold are electropneumatic or sear
> trippers? A good portion of them, I would say. Imagine getting your grubby
> mitts on those dollars, eh? Smart Parts is probably NOT trying to shut down
> everyone else, but rather take a piece of everyone else's pie. Anyone who
> refuses, ok, we'll take over your company. But we don't really want your
> company, so we'll take it over, and sell your marker division to someone
> who's in bed with us, and they can deal with the headaches of manufacturing,
> while we reaps the profits. It's simple, really.


Hmm, I suppose. This whole thing just stinks to me, I guess. It just
seems like this lawsuit would do more harm than good to the industry.
If SP takes enough of someone else's pie, that company might just
wither and die. I know you can always say, "well, that's just
business," but it just doesn't sit right with me.

time will tell, huh?

gush
 
Jeff Goslin
[8] Posted by Jeff Goslin 07-25-2003, 12:02 AM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
"Jamie Norwood" <mistwolf@mushhaven.net> wrote in message
news:slrnbi0t04.7jg.mistwolf@perath.internal.mushh aven.net...
> What does it mean to me? Nothing at all! I have my mag, with x-valve,
> intelliframe, and warp. I like it. I don't plan to upgrade to an electro
> anyway.


Amen to that. I gots me mah PGP, and I'm just fine wit it!

> I think SP may be making a bit of a mistake on the PR front though.
> Paintball isn't many industries, and eliminating electros from other
> epople won't corner them the PB market. This has a very big potential to
> blow up in their faces and hit them where it hurts most: in sales. Just


Not if they're the only ones allowed to produce electros. The simple fact
of the matter is that knuckledragging lemmings like Scummy and Mikey are
always going to want to get the latest and greatest, even if that latest and
greatest is a step back to the Shocker.

> paintball, that could be a very, very big factor. The only thing SP
> makes that noone else makes is electro markers, if this lawsuit wins.
> People can live without those, and everything else can be gotten
> elsewhere, often better. This could be suicide in the most important


If people could live without them, why have they been selling like hotcakes
for the past half decade? If they cornered the electro market, that
company's stock would SKYROCKET, make no mistake about it.

Although, in reading another post, it seems that everyone has gotten this
whole thing wrong, and that ICD is specifically being sued, and none of the
others... time will tell. However, assuming they will procede to sue
everyone on the planet for making electros... all my previous statements
stand.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD
It's not a god complex when you're always right
http://www.goslin.info




 
Jeff Goslin
[9] Posted by Jeff Goslin 07-25-2003, 12:17 AM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
"Dennis " <dust525@aol.compostpile> wrote in message
news:20030724213315.24645.00000770@mb-m28.aol.com...
> You're a tool. You should try playing against some good stockers (with

like
> equipment) and see what you think then.


It's best not to feed him. Such obvious trolls are, if you can believe it,
beneath even Scummy.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD
It's not a god complex when you're always right
http://www.goslin.info




 
Jeff Goslin
[10] Posted by Jeff Goslin 07-25-2003, 12:23 AM
 
Posts: n/a


Quote
It's hard not to get drawn in.

"SCM987" <scm987@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030724222031.04924.00000568@mb-m26.aol.com...
> Stock class and pump is slower and much easier. It isn't hard to advance

up
> the field.


Of course not, it's not hard at all. When you're playing against other
stock class players. Try that against a field of electros and other semi
autos, and see how far you get.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD
It's not a god complex when you're always right
http://www.goslin.info




 
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