Calling it a wargame does not necessarily make it so. Calling it a war
scenario does not necessarily make it so. There have been MANY scenario
games through the years with names like "Viet-Cong vs. the NVA", or "Yanks
vs Confederates. Both alude to historical military events. The scenario
games will even lay out a whole bunch of objectives, rules, missions, usable
"weapons", etc and you know what? When it's all said and the VAST majority
of the players just go out there and shoot the shit out of anything that
moves. I'd hardly call it a wargame. If it were there'd be a bunch dead
MFers on the field that died of shear stupidity. It takes more than
camoeflage and a paintgun to make it a wargame and the way this game is
played by the vast majority of people hardly qualifies it as such.


"Daniel Martin" <dwmartin@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:vgs5604s3e7j2e@corp.supernews.com...
> Well Jeff, EVERY incantation of the game that I have played, both
commercial
> and renagade has had at least one, if not all simulated war scenarios. I
> might add my first games was approximately 16 years ago ( not pulling the
"I
> know more cuz I played longer", just a historical reference) and in that
> time, bothe indoor and outdoor war and cqb battles are and have always
been
> a main stay . Therefore one can, and must conclude that paintbal has been,
> and still is a wargame. The marketing of it tells the story. I literaly
> reached down under my desk and pulled the first paintball flyer I could
> find, what's it called " COMBAT VALLEY" combatvalley.com hmm, what does
> that tell us.....
>
> Cheers
>
> Dan
>
> BTW I just read your response to Trenchy where you stated the reasons for
> not likening it to war, as some have been there and don't want' anything
to
> do with it... I can't disagree with your motives . I tried to get a
> retired cop out to play and he said, " I've had to draw my gun on the job
> enough, I have no desire to do it now." or words to that effect.
>
>
> "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:LQ6dnbtaXaoRuJCiXTWJhw@comcast.com...
> > "Daniel Martin" <dwmartin@idirect.com> wrote in message
> > news:vgpifmmfsks148@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Paintball. a game where two teams are designated, an objective is
> > > determined ;Capture the flag, hold the fort, etc. The two teams
point
> > [snip for brevity]
> > > Large games are are often patterend after historic battels or military
> > > skirmishes, and include mock arial support, tanks spies.
> > > Smaller games can have a military flavout. such as capture the downed
> > pilot
> > [snip for brevity]
> > > Some player een renact military history, by limiting their firing
> > [snip for brevity]
> > > So, who is this not warlike???????
> >
> > In my entire argument, I did not say that you could not MAKE our sport
> > "warlike". To be sure, there are ways to much more accurately simulate
> > combat conditions when playing paintball. Such rules are RARELY
employed,
> > and never to a level that will even come CLOSE to approximating real
> combat
> > conditions.
> >
> > Take chess. You could EASILY make chess MUCH more like war than the
> > strategy game we all play. Make your moves on a grid where the
> participants
> > actually must combat the opposition in the square to claim victory**.
> Your
> > decision of which person is to represent a pawn over a knight over a
> bishop
> > over a queen is important. Biggest, baddest motherfucker you can find
is
> > your "queen". Beats the shit out of anyone he comes across, except
maybe
> > the opposing queen. Why can't you do that to chess? Of course, then it
> is
> > no longer chess. It's really turned chess into a wargame.
> >
> > I would argue that the same thing happens to paintball the more you
apply
> > rules to approximate it closer and closer to actual war. Medic rules,
> > requiring hit persons to be dragged by two live players, people not
> leaving
> > the field but rather dropping where they stand, limiting ammo to 45
round
> > hoppers only, to be completely removed and replaced once emptied, and so
> on.
> > All of these things *CAN* be done to make our game more like a wargame
> than
> > a pasttime.
> >
> > But in the sport's current incarnation, and every incarnation of the
sport
> > since it's inception, none of these "reality rules" have really seen
much
> > play time. The sport has simply not followed a wargame's progression,
> > historically. Look at the history of the sport, and you will see that
> very
> > few of the rules enforced, even early on, had anything to do with
> > approximating warfare. Therefore, one must conclude that the game was
> never
> > intended to be an approximation of war, and once you make this
conclusion,
> > you must further deduce that paintball is therefore NOT A WARGAME.
> >
> > ** (In a semi-related note, wasn't there a cheezy 80's flick about some
> guys
> > who get thrown into this gulag type place and in order to escape must
win
> a
> > game of chess as the king, and strategist, of a live chess board?)
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Goslin - MCSD
> > It's not a god complex when you're always right
> > http://www.goslin.info
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>