that tells you that one field pushes paintball as a wargame.

whats your point.

"Daniel Martin" <dwmartin@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:vgs5604s3e7j2e@corp.supernews.com...
> Well Jeff, EVERY incantation of the game that I have played, both
commercial
> and renagade has had at least one, if not all simulated war scenarios. I
> might add my first games was approximately 16 years ago ( not pulling the
"I
> know more cuz I played longer", just a historical reference) and in that
> time, bothe indoor and outdoor war and cqb battles are and have always
been
> a main stay . Therefore one can, and must conclude that paintbal has been,
> and still is a wargame. The marketing of it tells the story. I literaly
> reached down under my desk and pulled the first paintball flyer I could
> find, what's it called " COMBAT VALLEY" combatvalley.com hmm, what does
> that tell us.....
>
> Cheers
>
> Dan
>
> BTW I just read your response to Trenchy where you stated the reasons for
> not likening it to war, as some have been there and don't want' anything
to
> do with it... I can't disagree with your motives . I tried to get a
> retired cop out to play and he said, " I've had to draw my gun on the job
> enough, I have no desire to do it now." or words to that effect.
>
>
> "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:LQ6dnbtaXaoRuJCiXTWJhw@comcast.com...
> > "Daniel Martin" <dwmartin@idirect.com> wrote in message
> > news:vgpifmmfsks148@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Paintball. a game where two teams are designated, an objective is
> > > determined ;Capture the flag, hold the fort, etc. The two teams
point
> > [snip for brevity]
> > > Large games are are often patterend after historic battels or military
> > > skirmishes, and include mock arial support, tanks spies.
> > > Smaller games can have a military flavout. such as capture the downed
> > pilot
> > [snip for brevity]
> > > Some player een renact military history, by limiting their firing
> > [snip for brevity]
> > > So, who is this not warlike???????
> >
> > In my entire argument, I did not say that you could not MAKE our sport
> > "warlike". To be sure, there are ways to much more accurately simulate
> > combat conditions when playing paintball. Such rules are RARELY
employed,
> > and never to a level that will even come CLOSE to approximating real
> combat
> > conditions.
> >
> > Take chess. You could EASILY make chess MUCH more like war than the
> > strategy game we all play. Make your moves on a grid where the
> participants
> > actually must combat the opposition in the square to claim victory**.
> Your
> > decision of which person is to represent a pawn over a knight over a
> bishop
> > over a queen is important. Biggest, baddest motherfucker you can find
is
> > your "queen". Beats the shit out of anyone he comes across, except
maybe
> > the opposing queen. Why can't you do that to chess? Of course, then it
> is
> > no longer chess. It's really turned chess into a wargame.
> >
> > I would argue that the same thing happens to paintball the more you
apply
> > rules to approximate it closer and closer to actual war. Medic rules,
> > requiring hit persons to be dragged by two live players, people not
> leaving
> > the field but rather dropping where they stand, limiting ammo to 45
round
> > hoppers only, to be completely removed and replaced once emptied, and so
> on.
> > All of these things *CAN* be done to make our game more like a wargame
> than
> > a pasttime.
> >
> > But in the sport's current incarnation, and every incarnation of the
sport
> > since it's inception, none of these "reality rules" have really seen
much
> > play time. The sport has simply not followed a wargame's progression,
> > historically. Look at the history of the sport, and you will see that
> very
> > few of the rules enforced, even early on, had anything to do with
> > approximating warfare. Therefore, one must conclude that the game was
> never
> > intended to be an approximation of war, and once you make this
conclusion,
> > you must further deduce that paintball is therefore NOT A WARGAME.
> >
> > ** (In a semi-related note, wasn't there a cheezy 80's flick about some
> guys
> > who get thrown into this gulag type place and in order to escape must
win
> a
> > game of chess as the king, and strategist, of a live chess board?)
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Goslin - MCSD
> > It's not a god complex when you're always right
> > http://www.goslin.info
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>